Bob Dylan wins the Nobel Prize for literature

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pap posted this 13 October 2016

Originally posted by TedMaul

"I obviously know a lot of Dylan through osmosis.  He's that big."  

What does that mean? sorry frown

Tons of bands have covered his songs.  I've probably heard Dylan that I don't know is Dylan.

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TedMaul posted this 13 October 2016

That's true, and understand what your saying :)

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TedMaul posted this 13 October 2016

Richard Burton as Dylan Thomas

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steveintheforest posted this 14 October 2016 - Last edited 14 October 2016

TedMaul posted this 14 October 2016

Thats Nobel winning there.

Areola Grandee posted this 14 October 2016

Originally posted by Cobham Saint

Originally posted by Chutney Ferret

Bit of 'Idiot wind' would probably not go amiss on  this thread... 

 Chutters, stop down voting anyone that's not a Bob luvvie.

You like him, as do others, but others are ambivalent or don't like his music.

As per my earlier post, how did he get a Nobel Prize? It should be about more worthy endeavours rather than a Songsmith who 's banged out a few protest tunes earlier in his career...

I have not downvoted anyone for not liking his music. That is a personal choice, but some forget that its impossible not to respect his body of work because if you have any knowledge of the origins of song, you will see that lyrics are an equally valid literary form. Song began as a way to capture, history, stories, emotions before people could write... the fact that folk traditions were more prevalent amongst the poorer classes is precisely because such stories could not be handed down in any other way. Dylan's main contribution was to take that traditional use of poetic folk lyric, add in a dose of misery from the early Blues singers and subsequent political voices such as Guthrie and bridge the gap to modern youth and contemporary culture.

He used it to document not the past but the present in songs and lyrics that became iconic of the 60s generation. His influence is vast and you would struggle to find any artist in the music industry (perhaps excluding the vaccuous teeny pop shit) who has not been influenced by or respects Dylan's work.

Its also alittle sad that just because he is a known popular name, some folks question the validity of the selection. How many on here, without looking it up on google, even know who won the Nobel lit prize last year, or could name 10 winners? How many of you have read any Heinrich Boll? Gunter Grass? Octavio Paz? (I had to look him up) - Even  Dario Fo would died yesterday was really only commonly known for his most famous play... and what of Seamus Heaney, a poet?

The point is that most folks dont give a shit, but I doubt there are any previous winners who would not acknolwedge that Dylan is not a worthy choice - over 50 years of writing and influence.

But I did not down vote anyone for not getting that either - I downvoted a few posts in traditional angry retaliation (which I have now more than addressed the balance  through the upvotes despite not agreeing with the content of the posts) at the idiocy of downvoting a song lyric  - as opposed to just posting why they disagree with the award or why the lyric does not work for them - its just so lazy and cowardly not to at least acknowledge why someone felt so strongly that it deserved to be downvoted... Folks should have the balls to say when and why they downvoted IMHO.

So some got caught in the wrath of Ferret - call it collateral damage...

Areola Grandee posted this 14 October 2016 - Last edited 14 October 2016

Originally posted by pap

Originally posted by Chutney Ferret

Someone is downvoting on this thread? seriously?lou_facepalm2

Twat of highest order award to the snivelly coward refusing to show himself... 

Come now.  Sotonians is actually better than your beloved EU.   Yes, we do have an unelected Commission that makes the rare anti-democratic decision (e.g. the decision to remove account deletion as an option to users), but in general, the entire community takes the EU Commission's role as agenda setters, doubling up as a Parliament that gets to yay or nay contributions.

Given your personal sense of loss of the EU's structures in our lives, I am therefore surprised to see our new and improved form so readily dismissed 

Taking on a more serious note, I personally think downvotes ought to be used for stuff that's unacceptable, and replies should be used for dissent, but it's not something I would enforce.

In the context of this thread, I really don't get the opening downvote, but I can see why you attracted three downvotes on this little fella.   I think you were fair on the first bit, harsh on the second.

 But fuck it, passion is just as valuable around here.  Accept two upvotes in solidarity from someone else that's occasionally harsh too.

 Sadly, they are still there... and whilst your comment was so 'obviously' in jest, it is, I feel necessary to correct you - I doubt there is anyone who will lament the loss of all the various 'EU structures' - there will however be some we regret not putting up with at some point in time... no, there are some who will perhaps feel the economic impact more than most and whilsts its big corporations and their shareholder profits, who cares right?... I suggest that those whose jobs do become surplus to requirements with a potential downturn might beg to differ, but in our new socialist uptopia, free from the shackles of EU laws, autocracy and waste we are sure to make sure we safeguard against their potential ruin.  The slight flaw in this cunning-Baldrick-of-a-plan is of course the resultant and very visual lurch to the right... it was predicted, inevitable and fucking shameful. From increases in attacks on minorities, to jokes of killing immigrants... I just dont like what this country has become... driven by 350million lies and a desire to keep the country free of foreigners... but anyway there is another thread for that, so back on track

But on a more serious note... downvoting for disent was thepoint of my angry rant and subsequent scatter gun approach - I happen to also believe that downvotes should be reserved for nasty or 'rule-breaking content' and when I am nasty, I am fair game and no complaints from me... but downvoting a song lyric on a Dylan thread?

... also when I down vote, I admit it and will also explain why - which I think is fair... the anonimity in downvoting leads to this IMHO and I think it is cowadly not to face up and give your reasons.

Someone thinks I am a fucktard and my opinion is shit? write it down, post it and lets go head to head and enjoy the debate... but downvote is silence? Twats lou_flirt

 

Areola Grandee posted this 14 October 2016

Cobham, Ted - have upvoted you guys to counter the nasty angry downvotes of yesterday.

There are however at least 4 posters who have down voted without any explanation...  this is twatish imho 

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Cobham Saint posted this 14 October 2016

Originally posted by Chutney Ferret

Cobham, Ted - have upvoted you guys to counter the nasty angry downvotes of yesterday.

There are however at least 4 posters who have down voted without any explanation...  this is twatish imho 

 Thank you Chutters

Let's agree to disagree

I still don't get the Bobster tbh lou_wink

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Areola Grandee posted this 14 October 2016

...as an aside, I think it is also pretty cool that the Nobel committee have not just kept this prize for the 'intellectual elite' - I wonder how many people on the planet could quote a line from a Heinrich Boll novel in German (I can because studied at School lou_flirt) - but i suspect that globally there are a couple of Billion at least who could quote a Dylan line in English, even if they dont know its Dylan.... The answer is blowin' in the wind

 

Areola Grandee posted this 14 October 2016

Originally posted by Cobham Saint

Originally posted by Chutney Ferret

Cobham, Ted - have upvoted you guys to counter the nasty angry downvotes of yesterday.

There are however at least 4 posters who have down voted without any explanation...  this is twatish imho 

 Thank you Chutters

Let's agree to disagree

I still don't get the Bobster tbh lou_wink

 Disagreement is cool - but would suggest you dont need to 'get' the Zimmer(framed)man to understand why he has been awarded the prize because its not about liking  his music, his 'interesting voice' or his 'lyrics' ... if I read al the work of all the previous winners, I would also probably question why anyone would like and want to read some of it or even its literary merit. 

My praise for his songs is more personal, as someone who has like many had youthful (misguided)flirtations with bands and songwriting, Dylan is a complete bastard... someone who can nail it whether its a protest, a lament or a 'simple' lovesong full of wistful melancholy and viscious sting at the same time... so inevitably he becomes quite an influence, even to those who may not like his music.

I think the challenge here is the need to separate an appreciation or not for his music v what he actually got the prize for, which is the huge body of poetic work that has influenced countless writers, lyricists and has even impacted on political motivation of youth... in that respect it is no different to what Dario Fo was looking to achieve through his plays such as 'Accidental death of an anachist', or Heinrich Boll with his anti-heros and critique of war. 

This might sound like a load of psudo intellectual bollocks, but I honestly think that is why he is a worthy recipient.

Areola Grandee posted this 14 October 2016

Originally posted by Chutney Ferret

...as an aside, I think it is also pretty cool that the Nobel committee have not just kept this prize for the 'intellectual elite' - I wonder how many people on the planet could quote a line from a Heinrich Boll novel in German (I can because studied at School lou_flirt) - but i suspect that globally there are a couple of Billion at least who could quote a Dylan line in English, even if they dont know its Dylan.... The answer is blowin' in the wind

 

 Downvoted? lou_facepalm2  hilarious....

pap posted this 14 October 2016

Scousepirational.

Sadoldgit posted this 14 October 2016

All art appreciation is subjective and is just about personal choice. The fact that so many luminaries from the likes of Bruce Springsteen, Tom Petty, The Byrds, Manfred Mann, Bryan Ferry (a whole album of Dylan covers), George Harrison,The Band, Jimi Hendrix and dozens of others tells you something about the esteme his work is held. I am not saying that Dylan was single handidly responsible for the shift from moon in june and she loves you lyrics, but his words certainly were a part of a massive sea change in the 60s and certainly helped change things for the better. Like him or not, the man was a massive cultural influence at a time when the world was growing up and is still nailing it now. It is about time popular culture was properly recognised by awards that normally end up in the high-brow end of the market. Fair play to them for their decision.

Now if we want to debate something really serious - Sir Rod Stewart? WTF? Knighted for services to (servincing)  tall, leggy blondes no doubt.

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dinger posted this 14 October 2016

This article is closest to my feeling about it.

For me it's a bit like those awful Q Magazine 100 Greatest Album lists, which toss in one token jazz or soul album amongst the Great White Rock bands, just to give the semblance of diversity.

"Well done pop music, one of your number actually makes grown up art.  Only one, mind."

Bloody nonsense, IMO.  With no disrespect intended towards Dylan.  If there was a Nobel Prize in Music, there's no question he should win that.

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Sadoldgit posted this 14 October 2016

I am not the worlds biggest Dylan fan. Like many people I suppose I have a few Best Ofs tucked away and every time I go on Amazon I tell myself I must get Blonde On Blonde and will do one day....but if omeone asked me who the most influential lyricist was in popular music I would say Dylan immediately.  As I said before though, it is all just personal taste and I am sure there are those out there who would say Tim Rice!

Nottarf Krap posted this 14 October 2016

Originally posted by saintbletch

He's alright, but he's no Billy Bragg.

 Thank fuck!

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saintbletch posted this 14 October 2016

Phyllis Stein.