đŸ‡ŸđŸ‡Ș Don't mention Yemen

Phil, you know the score, but I think you’ve got a blind spot on Iran.

I remember that one of our first debates concerned the Tunb Islands. You’d noted them as an example of Iranian aggression and expansion.

Here’s the thing. The Tunbs were taken from the UAE during the reign of the Shah. The Iran we know is the post-revolution Iran, the same one that shortly after its formation, decried pretty much all the Arab World as unislamic, accusing them of falling from their faith. Harsh words, which led to the expansion of Saudi funding of what would eventually become Al Qaeda and any other number of extreme groups following a path close to the Wahhabi doctrine.

Yes, the Iranians are engaging in the same kind of proxy sponsorship that every other country with a dog in the fight is doing. Yes, the rhetoric from its Supreme Leaders and Presidents has been incredibly truculent (especially when translated by Western media).

The post 1979 Iran has never invaded anyone that didn’t invade Iran first. It is not an aggressor state, and the vast majority of groups it has funded are resistance movements in occupied territories, usually fending off the advances of an aggressor state.

2 Likes

Fair points Pap. Not sure I can add more to that so won’t try.

Plus Iran is “axis of evil” so always gets bad press.

Actually I wasn’t having a dig at them in the way Pap was implying. It is such a fascinating place

In some ways their “position” is more of unofficial opposition the US style globalisation.

Their “other” role is defending the Shia faith against the “western backed” Sunni faith. Iran’s “gripe” is simply that they don’t believe the Saudis are true Muslims and so shouldn’t control The Holy Sites.

Don’t have a soft spot for them just balanced

2 Likes

I would actually love to go. Looks like one of the most beautiful spots on Earth, in certain parts of the country.

One of the huge problems with that now is that until Trump has gone, and possibly thereafter, going to Iran will probably prevent you from going to the US.

2 Likes

Totally agree Pap. The Ex wanted to go there - I worked for an American Company so had serious protocols to follow so couldn’t go. She loved it, so many beautiful Cities.

Middle Son was in and out for work a few times - loved the place - he made some great friends there while skate-boarding.

2 Likes

Yes, I know it’s James Corden, but finally Yemen is making the news:

1 Like

And the UK supports Saudi Arabia and seems to be doing nothing to ensure at least humanitarian aid is provided - shameful, but not unexpected.

ITV News has been bang on this the last couple of nights. Bravo.

How the fuck can you think of Yemen on a night like this?

Absolutely disgraceful isn’t it. The richest country in the world bombing the shit out of the poorest. With the help of their allies, The US,UK, France and Israel.

“It may never be possible to know the true death toll of the modern Western wars on the Middle East, but that figure could be 4 million or higher. Since the vast majority of those killed were of Arab descent, and mostly Muslim, when would it be fair to accust the United States and it’s allies of genocide?” - Physicians For Social Responsibility.

They calculate the body count of the Iraq war at about 1.3 million, and possibly as many as 2 million. The actual death toll could reach as high as 4 million if one includes not just those killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, but also the victims of the sanctions against Iraq, which left about 1.7 million more dead, half of them children, according to figures from the United Nations.

The numbers are mind numbing. No amount of blaming the victims, ie, Muslims, can change the facts, Muslims are being killed, unmercifully, and Anti-Muslim narrative is “blame the victims”. The stench of hypocrisy is overpowering. Assad is the elected leader of Syria, fighting against terrorists unleashed by NATO, whereas our allies, the Saudis, are fascists slaughtering the people of a sovereign state. And people in this country throw their arms up in the air in shock and outrage when we get a rare blowback and bombs go off in our cities, or someone in a lorry mows down pedestrians. Of course these people hate us, why on earth wouldn’t they? This is all being done in our name, like it or not, Of course our governments are not stupid, they know very well the laws of cause and effect, atrocities in our countries are factored in. For all their outrage and faux horror when it happens, the harsh reality is that, for them, it is a price worth paying. And the arms sellers are rubbing their hands with excitement. Every missile fired, every bomb dropped has to be replaced.

And Theresa May will go to church this Sunday as usual. How does that work?

4 Likes

The house of Saud on bbc2 tonight was worth watching.

2 Likes

A friend of mine who was always morally really judgemental. An Irish catholic, has been travelling for last 10 years. China, and now he’s teaching Saudi Pilots communication and I don’t know what it is. It’s tax free, and he’s training people to bomb women and kids in Yemen.

Sorry i’m tired :lou_facepalm_2:

It’s a humanitarian crisis that isn’t being reported.

1 Like

It is being reported. Just not by the Western media.

That tweet is “odd”, considering how close the UAE and Saudi actually are at every level, and their current combined anti-Iran and “Qatar” positions.