Feminism

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Dubai_Phil posted this 2 weeks ago

Originally posted by Sadoldgit

Originally posted by Dubai_Phil

Good point well made soggy.

Unfortunately let down by your last line. 

In the modern world sadly it seems that unless you use the media you get no response. Not just in these abuse cases but in general.

 

 I completely understand why people are using the media Phil, but it really doesnt help the legal process. The defence will argue that a trial will be unfair as it will be affected by the media storm. People have already made up their minds about Weinstein and they could well be right, but a witch hunt is no way a replacement for a proper justice system. Lots of people have clearly felt either let down by the justice system or the legal process over the years and maybe, now, things will start to change? Settlements out of court have been going on  for years and the American's especially have made an art form of making things "go away" in exchange for vast sums of money. Perhaps now we will see more cases go to court rather than be hushed up?

 Yep.

Population growth will solve global warming.

Brexit will be great.

Saints will score a goal at home

😉😉😉

coollou_facepalm2

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lifeintheslowlane posted this 2 weeks ago

Is "sub judice" still enforceable in law? Is it still desirable? Is it possible for a well know person to get a fair trial...in the legal sense?

Three questions for you all.

Coxford_lou posted this 2 weeks ago

Originally posted by Sadoldgit

Originally posted by Coxford_lou

Sorry, sog, would it be poss to highlight which of the above statements isn't a judgement? Because I'm struggling.

 Ok, hands up. my comments about her childish language in her rant to Baldwin are judgemental. I dont believe anything else is other than factual. I am not saying she should have gone to the police straight away. I am saying that by not doing so I agree with Baldwin in that justice has been delayed. You didnt mention whether you thought that Baldwin was supporting Weinstien. I certainly didnt get that impression from his comments.

I worked for the CPS for 8 years, the last few as a manager to paralegal staff, some who worked for the Rape and Serious Sexual Offences team. I know only too well how difficlut it is to bring these cases to a successful prosecution. So much harder when the cases are historical because often it is just one person's word against another. We need to remember that Weinstein has not been convicted of any crime as yet, although he has been tried on almost a daily basis in the media. McGowan has made allegations which are still to be proven. She has chosen to drag a man through the gutter in the press but gets upset when others use the media to make their own comments on the situation. She cant have it both ways and I still think her choice of words to Baldwin did her no favours. She had the choice to make a strong response but instead chose to use a childish response and, it seems to me, completely miss the point too. Read Baldwin's comments and tell me a) if you think he was having a widdle man baby tantrum and b) if you think he was supporting Weinstein? To me he was simply stating a fact. By not going to the police earlier she has clearly "delayed justice." There is no comment about saying what she should have done, just a comment about what the consequences of her actions (and those of many others) was.  I accept it is difficult and  hopefully through all of these recent allegations people will find it easier to stand up and seek proper justice for what happens to them when it happens. Not through the media, but through the proper channels.

I would respectfully suggest, your professional experience is overly dominating your view on this in terms of 'right process' vs an empathetic 'human response'. I make no judgements on Baldwin - I don't know the guy. But I think people need to be more cautious about making sweeping statements about who should have done what and at what time, given the circumstances. It's incredibly insensitive. Read the New Yorker link I posted above.  Nuts!  McGowan probably is a bit erratic or paranoid at the moment. But given the experience, I'm making allowances for her.

You say you're just stating a fact - she should have gone to the police earlier. But given a high percentage of your comments across this thread are focussed on 'stating facts' about McGowan, I would suggest your response is more judgemental than you realise it is. 

Is this not judgey: "She has chosen to drag a man through the gutter in the press but gets upset when others use the media to make their own comments on the situation."

Is this not judgey: "She cant have it both ways and I still think her choice of words to Baldwin did her no favours."

Is this not judgey: "She had the choice to make a strong response but instead chose to use a childish response and, it seems to me, completely miss the point too."

What about the women who went to trial in the Cosby case. Or Trump. Or the many other examples. Shall we just pat them on the back and say well done for following due process, sorry you didn't get any justice.

In many ways, sog, I find your response more destructive than that of our parody friend, The Duckmeister.  

Coxford_lou posted this 2 weeks ago

Even the Daily Mail commenters are starting to realise this one isn't as cut and dried. Yes, even the Daily Mail commenters.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5056745/Weinstein-used-army-spies-dirt-accusers.html

Top comment:

"Hopefully this information will shut up all the 'why didn't she come forward earlier' comments. The perpetrators are usually extremely powerful, and in this case it confirms it."

PhilippineSaint posted this 2 weeks ago

Originally posted by Sadoldgit

Originally posted by Dubai_Phil

Good point well made soggy.

Unfortunately let down by your last line. 

In the modern world sadly it seems that unless you use the media you get no response. Not just in these abuse cases but in general.

 

 I completely understand why people are using the media Phil, but it really doesnt help the legal process. The defence will argue that a trial will be unfair as it will be affected by the media storm. People have already made up their minds about Weinstein and they could well be right, but a witch hunt is no way a replacement for a proper justice system. Lots of people have clearly felt either let down by the justice system or the legal process over the years and maybe, now, things will start to change? Settlements out of court have been going on  for years and the American's especially have made an art form of making things "go away" in exchange for vast sums of money. Perhaps now we will see more cases go to court rather than be hushed up?

 Does the Government stilll not have a position of Witch Finder General?

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Dubai_Phil posted this 2 weeks ago

Or a Midwich finder general

Dubai_Phil posted this 2 weeks ago

If they do they'e rubbish. Couldnt find my ex wife & burn her at the stake  ....

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CB Saint posted this 2 weeks ago

Originally posted by PhilippineSaint

Originally posted by Sadoldgit

Originally posted by Dubai_Phil

Good point well made soggy.

Unfortunately let down by your last line. 

In the modern world sadly it seems that unless you use the media you get no response. Not just in these abuse cases but in general.

 

 I completely understand why people are using the media Phil, but it really doesnt help the legal process. The defence will argue that a trial will be unfair as it will be affected by the media storm. People have already made up their minds about Weinstein and they could well be right, but a witch hunt is no way a replacement for a proper justice system. Lots of people have clearly felt either let down by the justice system or the legal process over the years and maybe, now, things will start to change? Settlements out of court have been going on  for years and the American's especially have made an art form of making things "go away" in exchange for vast sums of money. Perhaps now we will see more cases go to court rather than be hushed up?

 Does the Government stilll not have a position of Witch Finder General?

 Tom Watson was aspiring to that role a while back

Bathsaint posted this 2 weeks ago

Originally posted by Bathsaint

Originally posted by MrTrampoline

Originally posted by Bathsaint

My wife works for a massive, national engineering company. They employ a load of graduates every year. 

A female engineering graduate was placed on site. She was asked to report her experience for the company magazine. 

The blokes on site asked her if she had a boyfriend. If she said yes, she was asked if she fancied a threesome or gangbang. If she said no, it was suggested that she should hook up with one of them. 

Not sure what's she warriors about. Can't measure it so must be fine, eh Tramps? I'm sure she didn't feel uncomfortable at all, a 22-year-old woman surrounded by dozens of rufty tufty blokes asking her questions like that. 

Link to the company magazine where she said all this? I'd be interested to hear.

 Okay, I've checked that it's okay to publicise with Mrs BS. She reckons it's fine, as it was published on the internal magazine. I've now read it and it reads very well. It's called 'Not Just Bants' and is about a female graduate working on site for Network Rail. 

What's really interesting is the range of comments underneath the article - some, mainly blokes saying it is just banter, some women telling her to 'man up', some women and men telling her well done for being prepared to tell her experiences and, the worst of the lot, a whole load of blokes whining about how men are harrassed and making it all about them.

You may, or may not be able to access it from this link. 

http://connect/content/news/2017/Oct/Not-just-bants.aspx

 Mrs BS brought home a paper copy of the magazine. I've photographed the relevant bits and will post them here - hopefully they're legible. Credit to Network Rail for actually publishing this in their magazine, I think. And, also, a really nicely balanced piece from the woman in question, who is thoughtful and sympathetic to her co-workers, I think. 

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Bathsaint posted this 2 weeks ago

And the article.

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Lord Duckhunter posted this 2 weeks ago

I’m surprised she’s getting sexual harressed she’s not exactly a looker 

SaintBristol posted this 2 weeks ago

Originally posted by Lord Duckhunter

I’m surprised she’s getting sexual harressed she’s not exactly a looker 

It's "Harrassed" though,  I hate to be that guy who corrects other posters mistakes.  But you're a dick, so i'm good with that.

Lord Duckhunter posted this 1 weeks ago

Good won 

Bathsaint posted this 1 weeks ago

Originally posted by Lord Duckhunter

I’m surprised she’s getting sexual harressed she’s not exactly a looker 

 Uh oH, granddad has woken up and started spouted nonsense.

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Lord Duckhunter posted this 1 weeks ago

 

God you're a bunch of soft arses. Good job I'm not from the snowflake generation otherwise I'd be crying about ageism. 

The bird wants  equality, well taking the piss is part of a working environment. 

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Rallyboy posted this 1 weeks ago

yeah, she needs to man-up - woman-up, or is it person-up now?

Either way it is clearly her fault if some old perverts choose to act out their fantasies with her as a victim.

I'm not sure why we can no longer say she was gagging for it and dismiss the whole nonesense, but in these snowflake days the sandal-wearing liberal-elite do-gooders insist we just apologise to the little lady.

#dinosaur 

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MrTrampoline posted this 1 weeks ago - Last edited 1 weeks ago

Its a funny one feminism because so often you only see things from your point of view. I went out with a girl the other night off Tinder who told me that she had 8000 matches on the app. Eight. Fucking. Thousand. 

Funnily enough we got on quite well and she's asked me to meet up on Thursday but you can't help but go home sulkily feeling like life is just absolutely piss-easy for women and that how can anything be hard when you're attractive to that kind of percentage of the opposite sex. How could it not be, right? How could the world not be particularly nice to you whilst such a huge amount of men find you attractive? Or so you think.

She then told me that whilst on holiday travelling she had her backside grabbed by three men in the space of about 100 metres of crowded road in Peru - and this wasn't when dolled-up on a night out - this was when she was off hiking and climbing mountains and by her own admission not looking her best at all.

Later that day I went to the recovery cafe where I met a 20 year old ex-Muslim girl who's run away from home and spent the morning at the police station sorting out a restraining order for her parents and sister as she's been a victim of honour violence (parents took her out of the country when she was 7 years old - tried to stop her getting an education/marry her off to a 35-year old when she was 19). She's an absolute star as well - she's enrolled herself on a course to become a paramedic. Wonderfully cheerful and optimistic girl as well even though she's been in hospital - she'll do brilliantly.

I guess my point is that when it comes to issues around sexism and gender there's a real habit from both men and women to only see the top-tier of the opposite sex. You see feminists doing the same thing when they bang on about straight white men having all this privilege and so on because most CEOs and board members of Fortune 500 companies are white, whilst failing to realise that they represent less than 0.001% of the total population and that their life experience is as irrelevant to your average working white man as it is to anyone else.

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Bearsy posted this 1 weeks ago - Last edited 1 weeks ago

Originally posted by MrTrampoline

I went out with a girl the other night off Tinder who told me that she had 8000 matches on the app. Eight. Fucking. Thousand.

 lou_surprised I wouldn't have thought that was even possible. She must be on it 24/7. I dunno how keen I'd be either on a bird who right-swiped 8,000 other bros. IMO that shows a lack of common discrimination. Has she no standards!*

* present company excepted lol 

 

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