In The Army Now

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Goatboy posted this 2 weeks ago - Last edited 2 weeks ago

23 members of the EU signed up for closer defence co-operation today. Reckon we'll be contributing?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41971867

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BTripz posted this 2 weeks ago - Last edited 2 weeks ago

Isn't this the European Army that we were told would never be happening?

Goatboy posted this 2 weeks ago - Last edited 2 weeks ago

Ah but they're not calling it a European Army. It' will just be all countries paying into a central defence budget and then the EU directing the member states' armies. Completely different.

I'm sure the contributions will be remarkably reasonable too.

CB Saint posted this 2 weeks ago

So is that €5 bn that will be wazzed up the wall on more bureaucrats.

Didnt David Cameron say that this was a fanciful idea in the campaign?

Goatboy posted this 2 weeks ago - Last edited 2 weeks ago

5BN Euros? You'll be lucky!

Look at how many US bases there are around the world. This is the stage that the EU is looking to 'play' on. 

That sort of role won't come cheap.

At the moment the cumulative defence spend of the 28 is in excess of $250 billion. Per year.

Reckon that will be climbing towards US levels of nearly $600billion  per year.

 

 

Goatboy posted this 2 weeks ago

Moghereini did stress that there will also be much more co-operation in research and development so maybe the EU will be looking to sell newer, better weapons to help with the funding.

However it works, Im sure we can all agree that what the world needs is more weapons and more meddling in the affairs of a greater number of countries.

https://www.politico.eu/article/federica-mogherini-defense-hails-historic-eu-defense-pact-as-23-countries-sign-up/

CB Saint posted this 2 weeks ago

Originally posted by Goatboy

Moghereini did stress that there will also be much more co-operation in research and development so maybe the EU will be looking to sell newer, better weapons to help with the funding.

However it works, Im sure we can all agree that what the world needs is more weapons and more meddling in the affairs of a greater number of countries.

https://www.politico.eu/article/federica-mogherini-defense-hails-historic-eu-defense-pact-as-23-countries-sign-up/

 Absolutely, the EU did a belting job with the Ukraine.

pap posted this 2 weeks ago

Where are the Remainers?

gavstar posted this 2 weeks ago

Originally posted by pap

Where are the Remainers?

 I'm here.  When the USA invades us I'll be signing up for team Europe lou_wink2

Goatboy posted this 2 weeks ago

Originally posted by gavstar

Originally posted by pap

Where are the Remainers?

 I'm here.  When the USA invades us I'll be signing up for team Europe lou_wink2

 When? 

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pap posted this 2 weeks ago

Well, I did warn our Remaining friends about this. During the 2012 debate between Farage and Clegg, Ol Nick repeatedly called Nigel a fantasist for suggesting it. 

The huge question of course, is who this force would hold fealty to. 

Cobham Saint posted this 2 weeks ago

Originally posted by pap

Well, I did warn our Remaining friends about this. During the 2012 debate between Farage and Clegg, Ol Nick repeatedly called Nigel a fantasist for suggesting it. 

The huge question of course, is who this force would hold fealty to. 

 Give it a rest Lenin. Doom, gloom, that's all we hear from you.

pap posted this 2 weeks ago

Originally posted by Cobham Saint

Originally posted by pap

Well, I did warn our Remaining friends about this. During the 2012 debate between Farage and Clegg, Ol Nick repeatedly called Nigel a fantasist for suggesting it. 

The huge question of course, is who this force would hold fealty to. 

 Give it a rest Lenin. Doom, gloom, that's all we hear from you.

 It's ze Germans, init Cobs?

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PhilippineSaint posted this 2 weeks ago

Originally posted by pap

Originally posted by Cobham Saint

Originally posted by pap

Well, I did warn our Remaining friends about this. During the 2012 debate between Farage and Clegg, Ol Nick repeatedly called Nigel a fantasist for suggesting it. 

The huge question of course, is who this force would hold fealty to. 

 Give it a rest Lenin. Doom, gloom, that's all we hear from you.

 It's ze Germans, init Cobs?

 Personallly I would have said ze Frenche

Areola Grandee posted this 2 weeks ago

No remainers  here, because well,  a single EU wide defence force and budget has been part of the long term vision of the EU for some time.  It ultimately, makes a lot of sense unless you are a little englander. Our current Uk defense budget is around 40 bn per year.... if we could half that by having a single EU defence force that our contribution was say 20 bn,  why we could use that extra 20bn per year on the NHS .... an extra 13% would come in handy surely?

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pap posted this 2 weeks ago

Originally posted by Areola Grandee

No remainers  here, because well,  a single EU wide defence force and budget has been part of the long term vision of the EU for some time.  It ultimately, makes a lot of sense unless you are a little englander. Our current Uk defense budget is around 40 bn per year.... if we could half that by having a single EU defence force that our contribution was say 20 bn,  why we could use that extra 20bn per year on the NHS .... an extra 13% would come in handy surely?

 Who will this force hold fealty to?

Bathsaint posted this 2 weeks ago

We'll also be cut out of all their defence contracts I suspect. As I understand, this will involve working on new military hardware in a joint cooperation between the EU members. How much of that business will our defence contractors see? Ah well, we can just sell more stuff to nice countries like Saudi Arabia, with their excellent human rights record. 

pap posted this 2 weeks ago

Originally posted by Bathsaint

We'll also be cut out of all their defence contracts I suspect. As I understand, this will involve working on new military hardware in a joint cooperation between the EU members. How much of that business will our defence contractors see? Ah well, we can just sell more stuff to nice countries like Saudi Arabia, with their excellent human rights record. 

 Yeah, because selling stuff to the Saudis will be a first.

Thanks for implicitly accepting that the only reason Brexit will be difficult is our EU "friends".

Keep the Vichy spirit alive, lads!

Goatboy posted this 2 weeks ago

Originally posted by Areola Grandee

No remainers  here, because well,  a single EU wide defence force and budget has been part of the long term vision of the EU for some time.  It ultimately, makes a lot of sense unless you are a little englander. Our current Uk defense budget is around 40 bn per year.... if we could half that by having a single EU defence force that our contribution was say 20 bn,  why we could use that extra 20bn per year on the NHS .... an extra 13% would come in handy surely?

 What makes you think the contribution would be lower than current levels of spending on defence??

Bathsaint posted this 2 weeks ago

Originally posted by pap

Originally posted by Bathsaint

We'll also be cut out of all their defence contracts I suspect. As I understand, this will involve working on new military hardware in a joint cooperation between the EU members. How much of that business will our defence contractors see? Ah well, we can just sell more stuff to nice countries like Saudi Arabia, with their excellent human rights record. 

 Yeah, because selling stuff to the Saudis will be a first.

Thanks for implicitly accepting that the only reason Brexit will be difficult is our EU "friends".

Keep the Vichy spirit alive, lads!

 Ha ha ha, you're a card. Vichy spirit indeed. My sides are splitting. 

Yep, we sell lots of stuff to Saudi, but we are also part of lots of European defence projects - not for much longer though. 

And, I don't see any problem with a pan-European defence pact, unlike you and your bestie, Nige. 

Pap and Nige, up in a tree, K I S S I N G

pap posted this 2 weeks ago

Originally posted by Bathsaint

Originally posted by pap

Originally posted by Bathsaint

We'll also be cut out of all their defence contracts I suspect. As I understand, this will involve working on new military hardware in a joint cooperation between the EU members. How much of that business will our defence contractors see? Ah well, we can just sell more stuff to nice countries like Saudi Arabia, with their excellent human rights record. 

 Yeah, because selling stuff to the Saudis will be a first.

Thanks for implicitly accepting that the only reason Brexit will be difficult is our EU "friends".

Keep the Vichy spirit alive, lads!

 Ha ha ha, you're a card. Vichy spirit indeed. My sides are splitting. 

Yep, we sell lots of stuff to Saudi, but we are also part of lots of European defence projects - not for much longer though. 

And, I don't see any problem with a pan-European defence pact, unlike you and your bestie, Nige. 

Pap and Nige, up in a tree, K I S S I N G

 Why is selling less arms a bad thing? 

Especially to a rival power on our doorstep?

Personally, I'd rather our defence industry to be concentrating on developing our defence, not arming the rest of the world. 

Given the amount of materiel we have built overseas, there is more than enough slack to pick up.