LOU'S VIEWS - a response to Dr Catherine Hakim

The Female Sex Deficit

I haven’t read the Dr Catherine Hakim paper that argues prostitution should be legalised because men need sex, and there’s a current deficit due to modern career focussed women not being prepared to give it to them. Only this: Telegraph article Therefore I have no right to comment on it. So I won’t. Instead I’ll talk about the Female Sex Deficit. Because frankly, women just aren’t getting it enough.

I’m basing this view on my sample base of single female friends, all intelligent, attractive, career orientated women, age roughly 28-40. I’d include married female friends, but generally speaking they’re not as open about how often they get it, therefore I don’t have that information to hand. Single women, however, talk about it a lot. They talk a lot about when they get it, and mostly, they talk about not getting it enough.

Which might be a surprise. You’d think single, attractive, intelligent women would have pick of the bunch. But it doesn’t quite work like that.

First off, one night stands for this group of women, are generally a dissatisfactory experience. Most women have experienced several of these intimate moments, and have generally been underwhelmed by the experience. Let’s face it - it’s take take on the blokes part (if he can drunkenly get it up in the first place), and then, see ya, the next day. A vibrator is often spoken of as a more satisfactory experience.

Whereas the potentially more meaningful dating experience is more complex than you’d expect. First off, English men aren’t very good at asking women out on a date. By ‘good’ I mean it just doesn’t happen, even though society tells men they need to do the asking, and they often feel emasculated if they don’t. This often leaves women in the no-mans-land of encouraging glances and ‘come hither’ body language, but no real control over their fate. Those that lack that subtle and wily flair, ultimately don’t get it.

Then there are the curious and unexpected moments of random men ‘making a move’. This often involves an insult as a way of getting the women’s attention. Then a lewd comment to further tempt her in. Men using this tactic are often batted off by the woman as being an ‘idiot’. Sometimes women talk the next day of mild regret for not going along with the situation, just so they could get it, but often another of the female group reminds them of their experience the last time they hooked up with a random bloke, and that’s enough to convince them they had made the right decision after all.

In summary, conclusions from monitoring this group are that they’re gagging for it. Don’t get it enough. And when they do get it, are generally dissatisfied.

I will withhold drawing any conclusions about men who resort to paid sex.

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Scary subject…who is brave enough to respond?..let’s have a look at men who pay for sex…

Personally, I cannot imagine a time when I would want to go looking for a drug addict/alcoholic who is so desperate for cash she’ll let me do whatever.

_Sweeping statement alert - _

Forget Pretty Woman and the high class call girls notion, they must make up .5% of the business, I believe that many sex workers are broken fragile people who need to fund addiction and are serving a niche market of men who cannot sustain a relationship and would stick it in a goat if it bent over near them.

But seriously, I’ve never fancied the thrill of shagging a smelly crack addict against the back door of Poundland between puddles of tramp piss, so perhaps those that do like this, and there must be some on here, could explain the attraction…

Ditto gay encounters in public toilets - the last place in the world that makes me feel sexy is a stinking hovel where strangers shit up the wall and the floors shine with pissy filth.

I know I’m out of step with society, but really?

Ugh!

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Welcome to the world of swinging…which appears to be a lot less hidden down here in Aus than it is in the UK

Of course there is a seedy side to it, but in a trusting relationship (between consenting friends as well as partners) there is the opportunity to pretty much get as much as you like. it certainly doesn’t have to be wham bam thank you mam, or a different partner every night.

allegedly…

Smiler :slight_smile:

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Very interesting. Most men would assume that young attractive women would have no such problems.

I did the internet dating thing a few years ago. The two things I learnt were, firstly, that I should have done that years before. Getting to know women via emails and texts was easy. The traditional route - pubs and clubs - less so.

Secondly, that a large proportion of men are complete knobs. The ‘icebreaker’ conversations with women I met pretty much always had them coming out with a variant of ‘my ex was a total prat’ or ‘my god, there are some wierd blokes on this site’ (huh - little did they know…). Guess that illustrates the old line about feminism benefiting men as much as women - and that’s not about becoming ‘feminised’, just realising that behaving like a sexist idiot puts women off.

As an aside, economists would call this a dysfunctional market. The ‘signals’ are wrong, expectations are mis-matched. Looks like both male and female want to be getting it on more than they actually do (to be clear I’m not talking about cash tranactions here. And I’m against reducing human interactions to the marketplace). There’s probably somebody doing a Phd on this right now.

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Hmm, I would suggest that, in the modern society, Friends with Benefits is maybe part and parcel of the problem.

Can’t speak for other men but asking women out has always been a bit of a challenge for me, being naturally shy and not anything special to look at. I generally ended up talking to women, becoming friends and then not wanting to ruin that by asking them out, no matter how much I wanted to bump uglies!

Most of my relationships in my younger years resulted from semi-drunken one night stands and/or fumbles.

I feel sorry for you and your friends Lou, I thought part of the female empowerment was that you could now make the move??

Originally posted by @BTripz

Hmm, I would suggest that, in the modern society, Friends with Benefits is maybe part and parcel of the problem.

Can’t speak for other men but asking women out has always been a bit of a challenge for me, being naturally shy and not anything special to look at. I generally ended up talking to women, becoming friends and then not wanting to ruin that by asking them out, no matter how much I wanted to bump uglies!

Most of my relationships in my younger years resulted from semi-drunken one night stands and/or fumbles.

I feel sorry for you Lou, I thought part of the female empowerment was that you could now make the move??

This isn’t about me BBB! I’m just the person doing the market research! These are findings based on many conversations with women. I get it loads!*

The ‘friendship curve’ is an interesting one. From my extensive research I’ve discovered that there are more hot women than men in the UK (probably a close correlation with amount of time and money spent on hair, clothes and makeup, compared to men). Therefore there are less opportunities for women to spot a man they immediately are interested it. For many, they have to dig a bit deeper and feel attraction for qualities such as kindness, humour, trust etc. Whereas single men, when they approach a women they’re interested in, generally give off the demeanour of an over excited dog given his first dinner of the day.

If we were to chart this level of excitement vs time in a graph, with 100 at the max excitement level it would plot the following:

Day one: man =100, woman = 20

Day five: man (feeling rejected and given up) = 20, woman = 70

Day ten: man (already attempting a new conquest) = 10, woman = 80

Day twenty: woman has given up, they hit friendship zone which is then rarely crossed.

So many missed opportunities…

*not.

Originally posted by @SO5-4BW

Very interesting. Most men would assume that young attractive women would have no such problems.

I did the internet dating thing a few years ago. The two things I learnt were, firstly, that I should have done that years before. Getting to know women via emails and texts was easy. The traditional route - pubs and clubs - less so.

Secondly, that a large proportion of men are complete knobs. The ‘icebreaker’ conversations with women I met pretty much always had them coming out with a variant of ‘my ex was a total prat’ or ‘my god, there are some wierd blokes on this site’ (huh - little did they know…). Guess that illustrates the old line about feminism benefiting men as much as women - and that’s not about becoming ‘feminised’, just realising that behaving like a sexist idiot puts women off.

As an aside, economists would call this a dysfunctional market. The ‘signals’ are wrong, expectations are mis-matched. Looks like both male and female want to be getting it on more than they actually do (to be clear I’m not talking about cash tranactions here. And I’m against reducing human interactions to the marketplace). There’s probably somebody doing a Phd on this right now.

I think you’re the man to do this research, SO5. You could probably make a million from it! It is exactly how you describe it in your last paragraph.

Originally posted by @Coxford_lou

This isn’t about me BBB! I’m just the person doing the market research! These are findings based on many conversations with women. I get it loads!*

Sorry, edited for you.

Originally posted by Coxford_lou

The ‘friendship curve’ is an interesting one. From my extensive research I’ve discovered that there are more hot women than men in the UK (probably a close correlation with amount of time and money spent on hair, clothes and makeup, compared to men). Therefore there are less opportunities for women to spot a man they immediately are interested it. For many, they have to dig a bit deeper and feel attraction for qualities such as kindness, humour, trust etc. Whereas single men, when they approach a women they’re interested in, generally give off the demeanour of an over excited dog given his first dinner of the day.

If we were to chart this level of excitement vs time in a graph, with 100 at the max excitement level it would plot the following:

Day one: man =100, woman = 20

Day five: man (feeling rejected and given up) = 20, woman = 70

Day ten: man (already attempting a new conquest) = 10, woman = 80

Day twenty: woman has given up, they hit friendship zone which is then rarely crossed.

So many missed opportunities…

*not.

Yes, if only things were simpler, but, as you say in a roundabout way, men are from Venus women are from Mars. We’re both after completely different things on a night out.

Men is sex first, realtionship later

Women is a lot more involved than that

Lou, I think you’re right - it’s a much more interesting topic than most PhDs I’ve ever heard of. I’ll apply for the grant!

Just to extend this argument, this is the time of exam results. With the news that females are going to make up 57% of this year’s new university students, is Lou’s post just further evidence that men/boys are just not cutting it in the modern world? Are we being left behind in all sorts of ways?

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You’ve hit the nail on the head, SO5. If men want sex, they need to learn to adapt. Once they figure it out, there won’t be enough hours in the day!

Yes, if only things were simpler, but, as you say in a roundabout way, men are from Venus women are from Mars. We’re both after completely different things on a night out.

Men is sex first, realtionship later

Women is a lot more involved than that

BBB, you’ve fallen back into an old school way of thinking. Women don’t necessarily want relationships. They just want a positive experience, that involves sex.

Originally posted by @Rallyboy

I’ve never fancied the thrill of shagging a smelly crack addict against the back door of Poundland between puddles of tramp piss

You haven’t lived!

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Originally posted by @Coxford_lou

when they do get it, are generally dissatisfied.

Maybe that is the difference between us, cos I never had a bang that wasn’t, at the very least, satisfying! I mean, I don’t spose it was all gravy for the other party, but I always make sure to Enjoy Myself!

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Also I think it should be “Lou’s Views” pls tks you need the pluralisations for poetic reasons tks

Originally posted by @Coxford_lou

Yes, if only things were simpler, but, as you say in a roundabout way, men are from Venus women are from Mars. We’re both after completely different things on a night out.

Men is sex first, realtionship later

Women is a lot more involved than that

BBB, you’ve fallen back into an old school way of thinking. Women don’t necessarily want relationships. They just want a positive experience, that involves sex.

You misunderstood me, I never said you wanted relationships, I meant that blokes just want sex, girls want a lot more than just sex i.e. the wining and dining then the sex

This reminds me of the old adage “premature for who?”

No they don’t! They either want men to make more effort in being hot (like women do) or they need a bit more time to figure out that they think you’re hot.

Wining and dining is a cliche!

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That pretty much nails it.

It’s really quiet here behind Poundland tonight, what sort of time does it liven up?

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Hey Rallyboy, was just watching this, and thought of you!