Merkel : Europeans can no longer rely on the US or UK

George Michael was a man’s man, ditto Andy Bell, and Elton John.

It doesn’t matter but I didn’t realise that Barry was into that sort of thing.

Though it does explain some of his views on intolerant religions.

We are coming out of the EU Pap FFS, get over it.

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It sounds like after reading this I am coming out, if I were gay and coming out let me tell you this first, you would be the first to know.

Did @coxford_lou get you to post that, @bucks , or was it an independent gesture in the spirit of a proud, red, white and blue Brexit? :lou_sunglasses:

Sounds a tad paranoid to me. “A continent -wide army”? With respect, that sounds like something Paul Nuttall would come out with. The idea that Germany, France, Holland etc would be some kind of military threat to us in the future? Come on! The fact of the matter is that the UK have made their choice, after 45 years of EU membership, most of which was spent moaning and whining from the sidelines, constantly trying to baulk and block perfectly sensible measures that the rest of the 27 members were trying to implement. One of the more recent, and probably most outrageous examples was Chancellor George Osborne being the only one voting against a proposal that banker’s bonuses should be restricted to no more than 200% of their salary. But fair enough, we have made the choice, democracy rules.

Merkel is just being pragmatic, she has now had the up close experience of Trump and little Theresa desperately clutching his coat tails and thought, nah. This is not for us. And who could blame her. The UK has made it’s choice, in our wisdom we have left one strong alliance, the EU, and thrown in our lot with Uncle Sam, standing shoulder to shoulder with our new allies, Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Israel. As you say, “what could possibly go wrong”!

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Although.

Throwing a spanner in the works

Over how many years & how much did it cost for the US & UK to station troops & weapons in Germany to protect them?

We weren’t bothered by communists, we would have had generations being led by Tony then Jezza and no doubt Ken.

Think how that could have been spent on motorways or health or benefits.

Should we add that to the Brexit bill?

:sunglasses:

Probably more of a twat’s twat to be fair Barry.

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It was a plea to you, from me, to recognise that Brexit means Brexit. Unless you are pinning your hopes on the Liberals being in power after next week :lou_facepalm_2:

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Merkel : Europeans can no longer rely on the US or UK

Ve Vill invade Poland after the Summer Bank Holiday followed by the low countries and then France.

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Don’t think it paranoid at all.

The fundamental problem that the EU has is that it has no demos, no true sense of being European. I think those driving the EU project are manifestly aware of this fact. They gave the public a go when proposing their EU Constitution, but found them ungrateful in the reception of their plans. They realised then, that they did not have a demos.

The US has this problem to a lesser extent. What it means to be American is going to vary wildly depending on where, and what colour you’re born, despite the presence of a 200 year old constitution. Even so, the one place where you tend to see a lot of diversity is the forces, largely because like here, the bulk of their recruits come from working class people with few other prospects (not saying they’re thick like, just pointing to shit situations in certain parts of certain countries).

When one of our boys takes the Queen’s Shilling, he knows he’s fighting for Queen and Country. When a US lad signs up, no matter the demographic, he’ll have a constitution he can say defines his country, one which says his commander in chief can be voted out.

What would EU Army soldiers be signing up for? Which demos do they serve?

What would EU Army soldiers be signing up for @pap ?

Perhaps for something they believe in?

Just because they believe in something different to you doesn’t make them wrong

Perhaps EU citizens are finally getting pissedoff by the USA and UK’s political power games and want to forge their own destiny

I say good luck to them. I suspect they’ll do rather well without us

What, exactly?

That is what I do not get. The problem when you have no demos is that anyone signing up for your vision of the world is essentially going to subscribe to a myth.

Come on Pap, most civilisations are built around a myth

FFS the UK isn’t exactly governed by truth is it?

Labour are offering as much of a myth as the Tories, UKIP, SNP and those Welsh boyos’ - there’s as much “demos” there, as you so quaintly put it as in the EU

For someone who can usually argue rationally this election seems to have you strangely rattled.

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Sorry. Had to stop and chuckle there. We’re a country that has had its present constitutional configuration for 310 years and its geography for much longer.

The EU is a collection of nations that have spent many of the last 310 years kicking the shite out of each other.

For someone who can usually argue rationally this election seems to have you strangely rattled.

And this is straight out of the top drawer of rational argument, is it?

And there you have it Pap bottom drawer retorts…you just can’t seem to accept alternative views especially if there is an implied or stated criticism of His holiness Saint Jezza contained in a post.

You were chuckling. I was almost pissing myself laughing out loud.

What the world really needs is another fucking great army.

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Why can’t the EU constitution be based around the fact that they’re a collection of nations who no longer see the value or want to kick the shite out of each other? Why can’t you get a sense of ‘belonging’ to a larger collection of nations? It’s no different to a Cornish person still feeling ‘British’ is it?

I don’t see anything inherently wrong with the concept of feeling like you belong to a European State - doesn’t that create the ‘demos’ you’re claiming can’t exist? Just because it’s a newer myth upon which to found a nation doesn’t mean that it’s less ‘believable’.

Seriously, Cobs - I don’t know what you’re on about.

I’ve managed to conduct this exchange sticking to my own articulated views. If the alternative view you’re looking for me to accept reflects your chuckle worthy post, then is it any surprise that I am not taking it onboard?

You’ve massively over-reached. There is nothing like an EU demos, and to compare it with our own country, in which most of us live on the same island, speak the same language and share similar cultural interests shows how far that over-reach is.

Most Europeans live on the same land mass, a large proportion speak a common language (English), and most like to spend their free time watching football, shagging or drinking alcohol. I’m not really not sure what your point is here.