:labour: New Old Labour in trouble

So I am an Independent reader. I do so because I like to read from both sides of the spectrum. Since Corbyn came to power, this is the first negative story I have read about him…hence why I was surprised and I posted it. They’ve been suckling his teet more than Pap.

Do we have now a have a story to rival Piggate?

Originally posted by @Chertsey-Saint

So I am an Independent reader. I do so because I like to read from both sides of the spectrum. Since Corbyn came to power, this is the first negative story I have read about him…hence why I was surprised and I posted it. They’ve been suckling his teet more than Pap.

So, you read the Independent because it shows both sides of the spectrum, but you’re surprised because even though it provides both sides, it has been virulently pro-Corbyn?

There’s just no internal consistency to this logic.

I read it because it used to do that. It doesn’t anymore, that’s for sure, it’s probably more left than the Guardian now.

Didnt the Indy Editor used to have a Sotonians badge though?

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Originally posted by @Chertsey-Saint

I read it because it used to do that. It doesn’t anymore, that’s for sure, it’s probably more left than the Guardian now.

Is that present tense or past tense? Think carefully, Chertsey. Remember, you’ve got form both here and other there for not being as clever as you think you are.

The ultimate insult is Bazza is as thick as pig shit and still more cleverer than scribes on here…

Originally posted by @Barry-Sanchez

The ultimate insult is Bazza is as thick as pig shit and still more cleverer than scribes on here…

I bet you slow play trips when playing Hold 'Em. I just know it somehow.

Who is trips? Is he one of these gangster singers like Vanilla Tea or Dirty Smalls?

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I think many people on this forum suffer from that affliction…

Present tense.

I can’t see Lou’s debating being stifled by anyone on here Cherts. If she wants to take part she will. Verbal stropped off (again) but I very much doubt that ‘sycophantic rhetoric’ was the reason. Maybe he just wanted an easier audience?

Not at all, all I was doing was linking to an Independent article…I dont care if you don’t think it’s a valid poll, it’s a poll done in the paper that has been most complimentary about the new guard. That’s my only point. I’d like to know what assumptions you think I’m making…

If I decided to go on some mass diatribe about how this is proof that Corbyn is going to poll lower than any post war Labour politician then fair enough, but all I said was from people I know this is pretty accurate.

Fair enough, although haven’t seen Lou debating Politics on here for a while, and I think (although can’t be arsed to go search) that she had a problem with the dismissive nature of the way Pap expresses himself on these threads. Lou, apologies if I’m misrepresenting you.

Nah, I just have this mental image of Lou holding pap at arm’s length while he swings wild and useless lefts and rights. Mostly lefts obvs…

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I think Lou expected (hoped) for more football debates on here than political. On a football forum, you know.

Originally posted by @Chertsey-Saint

Not at all, all I was doing was linking to an Independent article…I dont care if you don’t think it’s a valid poll, it’s a poll done

At least be real, Cherts. All you were doing was providing a counter-thread to the Tories in trouble? thread I started last night. Nowt wrong with that, but you started off with rather more opinion based off considerably less substantiation.

You provided a link, set the title and had a one-line opinion about how Labour were crap because of this one Indy article.

in the paper that has been most complimentary about the new guard. That’s my only point. I’d like to know what assumptions you think I’m making…

If I decided to go on some mass diatribe about how this is proof that Corbyn is going to poll lower than any post war Labour politician then fair enough, but all I said was from people I know this is pretty accurate.

I know what assumptions you’re making.

Assumption #1 - The Indy is a Corbyn ally

Surprisingly from their only real press ally as well…

Incompetent Labour party

Reality: The Indy never endorsed Corbyn. Only the Morning Star and Daily Record did.

Assumption #2 - The people I meet are representative of general society

Not really a surprise judging by the general sentiment I’ve encountered.

Assumption #3 - pap isn’t critical of Corbyn, or any of his policies.

I love how you will bend over backwards to defend him, anything negative said about Corbyn etc.

Assumption #4 - that when losing debate, one can somehow “win” that debate by insulting your opponent and then claiming that your opponent is stifling debate

The dismissive way you deal with anything that doesn’t got with your sycophantic rhetoric means that people become stifled (see Verbal/Lou) and then don’t bother.

Lol, see this is where you’re bang wrong (Partridge). The title was used because as with your thread last night, it doesn’t mean the party are in trouble by any means. It was mocking at people making mountains out of molehills. I’m surprised you didn’t get that as it’s a tactic I’m sure you have used in the past.

  1. It was a flippant remark as I know they didn’t endorse him, but are very supportive, not an assumption.

  2. No, just that the poll agrees with the people I know. Don’t care if it’s representative of society, it’s not the point I was making.

3 and 4) You’re email outlining me making assumptions was before I’d written all this. Back to the Future indeed. Also, not sure where I insulted you…?

C’mon, even your thread title was a loaded statement.

Let’s recap. I’m threw down my thread in the wake of a Lords amendment that’ll cripple Osborne’s plans to take money from the poor.

You’re hitting us with an Independent article, based on polling - backed up on the false premise that the Indy is only ever going to run with positive press for Corbyn. You think the Indy is pro-Corbyn because it featured more positive articles than other papers. I put it to you that the Independent was simply being more balanced than other newspapers. It is apparently part of its remit, after all.

Even the papers that stacked themselves with anti-Corbyn viewpoints had a proportion of articles in support of his candidacy, or at least grudgingly acknowledging the threat he poses.

Unfortunately, we’ve seen little to advance the argument that Labour are in trouble, or in any more trouble than they were when Corbyn was first elected as leader. It also follows a monumental break in convention, that was broadly in line with Labour policy. This has already been claimed as a first victory for Corbyn. Osborne has already promised to lessen the impact of the cuts.

So I dunno, Cherts. I’m actually thinking that it’s been a good couple of days for Corbyn and co. Does your Indy article overturn all that has been achieved, or even take it into account?

P.S. Describing anyone’s behaviour as sycophantic is a bit of an insult. I don’t think Corbyn has the message fully formed on EU and immigration yet, and I think that will be a continuing liability unless they address genuine concerns in some shape or form.

I wouldn’t say I’m stifled, but I certainly don’t want to get involved in the debate since I’m not overly impressed with where the debate ended up before (we had that discussion before no need to rehash it). But that’s just me, and I don’t want to offend anyone.

If someone said to me - hey Lou come and join this amazing far left political forum where everyone debates how great Corbyn is doing - I would undeniably have run a mile in the first place. I really don’t like far left politics, and I have zero desire to spend time debating far left politics unless it’s a balanced and two sided debate. But this isn’t a political forum, it’s a lot more - footie, humour etc. Plus nice people. So inevitably, the more we have Corbyn euphoria, the less I’ll be interested, the more we have the other stuff, the more I’ll be hanging around. I’ll think the fact that it’s Pap, as the owner of the forum and the most enthusiastic far leftie of the lot, that sometimes makes me feel I’ve lost my way home and accidentially ended up in the SWP secret gathering. :lou_wink:

It is what it is, I’m not expecting anyone to be any different. I’m sure there’s plenty I do that others don’t like (Ohio for one).

I do wish people would quit making digs at Furball though. It’s very uncool.

Sounds fair enough to me. FWIW I mostly enjoyed Furball’s posts. Shame he didn’t stick around but hey ho…