Should we simply ban faith schools and be done with it?

Religion is divisive and unproven, why have it in a school of learning? I am talking about being inclusive and open not restrictive, don’t you agree?

“To give pleasure to a single heart by a single act is better than a thousand heads bowing in prayer.”

Gandhi. Sandal wearer.

A true inspiration of a man.

You are doing a lot of talking but not too much listening.

I’ve got kids that have both gone through the Catholic system in Liverpool. Their mum is a Catholic, so it wasn’t that much of a stretch. I’ve got sympathy for both viewpoints; I don’t really think that religion should be guiding education, but I also recognise that the primary school my kids went to is the best in the city for SAT results, and that their secondary education has comprised a comprehensive religious studies component, which hasn’t only exposed them to other faiths, but also asks big questions on ethics.

The eldest got into a Russell Group University because of that education. The youngest got an A* Spanish GCSE at fourteen because her primary school thought it’d be a cool idea to teach the kids Spanish. It was.

The ideal would be to have that quality of education across the board, but I wonder how do-able it is. Whatever else you might say about religious schools, they have more to fall back on than regular state schools. They still get state money, but a lot of money gets donated through the collective enterprise of the school and church. In Liverpool’s case, it has resulted in the best primary school in the city serving some of its most deprived kids. That’s a brilliant state of affairs, and I’d hate to lose it.

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I thought Booker Avenue was the Cities best along with Belvedere?
Why should the state fund church schools?

Booker Avenue not in this top ten, or Belvedere.

That list also gives a good example of why the government funds church schools. 6/10 of the best performing SATS schools in Merseyside are “faith schools”.

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The other thing I would say is that some places have a regime that is good for the kid concerned. A mate of ours has a son who is a bit unruly. No harm in him, but very little in the way of filtering either. Loads of schools were unable to handle him, and for a long time, it looked like he might become another statistic. He has been going to King David’s for years now, a school focused on the education of Jewish children but also admitting kids from other faiths. It has completely turned him around.

I’m not saying that secular schools are going to have an identikit approach, but my suspicion is that he’d have been bounced off to some state-run institution for kids they can’t accommodate within the main stream. Again, it’s anecdotal, but the existence of a faith school might have done some good here.

I say all this as a person that isn’t particularly religious. The ideal would be top quality education with no religious dimension, but at the same time, the faith school system hasn’t turned either of my girls into religious zealots (or even religious, for that matter) and I’d wonder where the additonal funding currently raised through the school levy and the diocese would come from.

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What does value added mean on the scores?

From the article:-

Value added scores aim to measure how much better pupils do than might be expected, based on previous attainment and progress.

Well Lane Primary School in Tranmere had a value added score of 103.4 for its 2015 results, this means pupils are doing 3.4% better than the expected score of 100, one of the best value added scores in England.

So a school gets extra marks for doing better than expected? Sounds a pc extreme left crock of shite to me, I wondered why the usuals weren’t on there bar Liverpool college.

Have I read that right?

I’ve agreed with a lot of what you have said about religion in education, but this post highlights your downfall…silly comments about PC and lefty stuff whilst also having no idea about the thing that you’re judging (in this case value added)

Paps story about the boy who was turned around in the Jewish school may have been dealt with more successfully in the state sector if the funding for SEN was adequate. It’s not the religious aspect of that school that has made a difference, of that I’m sure. The success or not of religious schools is nothing to do with the religious aspect of them. It is to do with all the other things that make schools successful, such as funding, support, level of expectation (from school and home), quality of teaching and the full range of socio-economic factors. I’ve seen plenty of faith schools that are terrible and plenty of non faith schools that are great. And vice versa. The point is, the schools can be successful without religion and there is no need for religion to be in schools. In a moment of clarity, Barry has pointed out that there are places for people to go if they wish to do religious stuff, and school shouldn’t be that place. If parents want to teach their children about religion or their religious values then they should do it themselves.

To be rewarded for doing better than expected in these circumstances is lefty bulshit. How does a mark actually raise the standard?

You’ve got the gist of that but you’re mistakenly applying it to the top ten. The value added thing is simply a separate recognition of a different sort of achievement (note that the top value added school is nowhere in the top ten of achieving schools).

The top ten is about pure SATS achievement. Nothing more.

Originally posted by @Fatso

Originally posted by @Barry-Sanchez

So a school gets extra marks for doing better than expected? Sounds a pc extreme left crock of shite to me, I wondered why the usuals weren’t on there bar Liverpool college.

Have I read that right?

I’ve agreed with a lot of what you have said about religion in education, but this post highlights your downfall…silly comments about PC and lefty stuff whilst also having no idea about the thing that you’re judging (in this case value added)

Paps story about the boy who was turned around in the Jewish school may have been dealt with more successfully in the state sector if the funding for SEN was adequate.

I should probably point out that other well-funded faith schools had failed to address his educational needs, that all the schools he has been to have had state funding. I don’t know what it was that is different about the way King David’s teaches their kids, but it’s working for him and I’m glad he had that option.

Personally, I think that the culture of achievement has a darker side and that he happened to be a victim of it, his previous schools choosing to pass the problem on rather than attempt to address it.

We definitely need to raise standards. Comprehension levels are ostensibly piss-poor in the adult population.

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I wholeheartedly agree and that list must be bullshit as there is no way Halewood is better than Sudley, Booker or Gilmour nevermind the posh ones in Mossley Hill, Aigburth and Childwall, a list for aspiration not reality regardless of what that says as I live in the area and I haven’t ever met one person who would rather send their kids to Halewood over the schools I have mentioned, like choosing Calderstones over St Margarets.

You do realise that the top ten is based on actual results, and not what you’ve imagined in your head. I am guessing that

a) Sanchez Jr isn’t going to a school in the top ten.
b) Sanchez Sr hasn’t done his research

I don’t give a shite what that hippy list says there is no way Halewood primary (however improved as it has, I know this as my close mates daughter goes there) is better than Sudley. Booker and Gilmour.
The list says one thing but I know another, they’ll be saying Halewood Comp is better than the Bluecoat next, load of old bollocks Pap and we are detracting from the point of religion and its involvement inside schools where in my opinion they have no place.

Originally posted by @Barry-Sanchez

I don’t give a shite what that hippy list says there is no way Halewood primary (however improved as it has, I know this as my close mates daughter goes there) is better than Sudley. Booker and Gilmour. The list says one thing but I know another, they’ll be saying Halewood Comp is better than the Bluecoat next, load of old bollocks Pap and we are detracting from the point of religion and its involvement inside schools where in my opinion they have no place.

Barry, pls read, and then shurrup, la.

EXAMPLES OF TOP PERFORMING PRIMARIES IN MERSEYSIDE, AS ASSESSED BY NATIONAL SATS TESTS

School: Halewood C of E Primary School
Barry says “there is no way Halewood primary (however improved as it has, I know this as my close mates daughter goes there) is better than Sudley.”
% Level 4 and above: 100
% Level 5 and above: 43
Average level: 5C

School: Our Lady and St Edward’s Catholic Primary School, Birkenhead
tenth school in the list
% Level 4 and above: 98
% Level 5 and above: 33
Average level: 5C

TOP PERFORMING PRIMARIES IN MERSEYSIDE, ACCORDING TO BARRY “MAN DOWN THE PUB” SANCHEZ

School : Booker Avenue Junior School
% Level 4 or more: 86
% Level 5 or more : 40
Average Level : 5C
Value added : 99.3

School : Sudley Junior School
% Level 4 or more: 90
% Level 5 or more : 36
Average Level : 5C
Value added : 99.3

School : Gilmour Junior School
% Level 4 or more: 82
% Level 5 or more : 21
Average Level : 4A
Value added : 98.7