If you’ve forgotten school science, I’m sure you are aware where you could look for good evidence the Earth goes around the sun. The same can’t be said for God or any religion.
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300 years ago, eh Bazza? It may have been called the Enlightenment. Some of our practices were stuck in the dark ages.
We must have been “enlightened” in the 19th century, where grown adults went around fucking kids legally. Age of consent was only upped to 16 in 1885.
Inside 100 years we’ve got form for locking up gay people in mental asylums and capital punishment, with the attendant mistrials of justice. In the last 15 years, we’ve been allowing people to be kidnapped off our soil, to be tortured in black sites across the world. We send drone strikes out that do 95% collateral damage. Our forces are on the record as having used chemical weapons in Fallulah, despite the fact that we went into Iraq to stop that sort of thing from happening.
Over a million people are dead as a result of the last 15 years alone. Europe ripped itself to pieces twice in the space of 40 years due to the “enlightened” attitudes of people at the time.
I’m left with the sense that you’re not privy to much that went on in the last 300 years.
Yeah i spose i can probably find an explanation in a book, or ask a trusted community leader for advice, i will do that tks
Yeah but we’ve got bacon sandwiches and bikinis.
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Evidence for the earth going round the sun is demonstrable and manifests in reality.
Evidence for God or any religion isn’t demonstrable and doesn’t manifest in reality.
What about the achievements? I could list them but there would be far too many, the biggest one was a healthy dose of democracy. Democracy over reigion anyday, Pap, surely you must agree, you’re not a Mullah are you? I won’t be seeing you on Homefront?
Yeah i know! I’m agreeing with you! I have complete faith that earth goes round sun!
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You couldn’t have picked a worse time to make that case, Bazza. Theresa May has just got the top job in the country by acclaim of 199 people and a few well placed knives. A similar minority are presently trying to ensure that democracy never takes root in the Labour Party again.
We’ve also removed a shitload of civil liberties in the last 15 years and created an enabling act in 2006.
If democracy is as some suspect, merely the illusion of choice, have we achieved anything?
There are people that rely on foodbanks that could really do with JC as Labour leader, but have been utterly priced out of the market due to PLP shenanigans.
Over the water, we’ve got a Presidential campaign where the only certainty is that the winner is going to be a fucking disaster for Muslims, somewhere. Trump doesn’t want Muslims on US soil, Clinton quite fancies bombing some of the overseas ones.
Democracy is a fine achievement when practiced, Barry. The problem is that we don’t seem to have had much of it since the Blair years.
Originally posted by @Matthew-Le-God
Evidence for the earth going round the sun is demonstrable and manifests in reality.
Evidence for God or any religion isn’t demonstrable and doesn’t manifest in reality.
I saw an episode of Only Fools and Horses and there was a statue of Mary and it was crying.
I see your toast and raise you a watermelon…
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The “holy” books of the various monotheistic religions are believed as the truth by the credulous, which is fine as they appear to offer a moral framework to live your life
The problem seems to me is the “priesthood”, for want of a better word covering all religions. It’s their interpretation of the words that seems to be the cause of the problems in the world today (& in the past).
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It is not “fine” at all, the “morals” outlined in Christianity and Islam are a horrifically bad way to run a society.
Most Christians cherry pick from them, following the laws they like and ignoring the ones they don’t and also conviently ignore the punishments for the commendants often ended in being stoned to death.
MLG - I suspect they were fine back in the day, but agree about the cherry picking bit.
Compare the cherry picking between Islam and Christianity and you can probably work out which one has moved further from their origins - although I’d struggle to say they are truly modern.
That being said, Christianity today can and does offer a moral framework for very many people. I personally don’t agree with religious views, but many depend on their God to help define their place in a very uncertain world - although nutters like ISIS have perhaps taken it a little to far (sarcastic understatement by the way)
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Pap my child, May will come and go, democracy will stand however battered, corrupt and poor it is, there hasn’t been a better, it could be much better though I agree, we are getting off the subject though, we had our split between state and church and we’re all the better for it.
Originally posted by @cobham-saint
That being said, Christianity today can and does offer a moral framework for very many people.
None of the 10 commandments as they are written in scripture are current UK or US law.
Nor are the hundreds of other laws outlined in the Bible.
The cherry picking of faiths wrecks my head, you either take the lot or nothing, you can’t be a Muslim without not wanting gay marriage, the same for most Christian denominations, .we can’t really mention this as it doesn’t help, help who and what?
I’m not disagreeing with you MLG. My last post made clear that,I don’t agree with religious views. What I’m trying to get across is that many do take comfort from their religious views / beliefs. Whether they are right or wrong neither you or I have the right to deny them that. Making them aware of the inconsistencies and downright wrong headed ideas -fine - I’m all for that. Anything else would almost be as bad as the religious"missionary" types who you often seen on the streets peddling their beliefs. You’re not like that are you, an “anti-missionary”?
That would be a bummer.
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So, you either jip the lot off or become a dogmatic fundamentalist believing in the literal word of your holy book?
And that’s the Barry “against religion” Sanchez recommendation, is it?
It’s not a move without risk 