Maybe slightly more accurate to suggest this is one opinion as opposed to the majority view of those still seeking independence?
Many who were pro union in the last referendum have since softened their stance seeing what a clusterfuck of voting and government has infected England and is then enforced ‘union wide’ - sure the economic arguments still stand and are a concern, but given that this is fucked for all now, there is less to lose…,
Folks also forget that independent Scotland does not mean SNP Government for eternity…
But many in England especially Labour supporters recognise that without maybe a return to 40 labour seats in Scotland, a Westminster majority is unlikely…
This is a good piece from a pro-Union Scottish blogger.
What this means is that the SNP right now thinks that it can demand that the Chancellor pays Scottish wages and keeps our businesses going for as long as we choose to remain in lockdown, but all along we are plotting to walk away and renege on the debt that been taken out on our behalf.
The SNP appear to think that after the Scottish banks were bailed out in 2008 and after the jobs of 374,000 Scots were protected by the Chancellor that even under these circumstances they can continue their conspiring and that it will be just up to us if we want to say “cheerio suckers, you English can continue for generations paying back the debts that kept us fed, but we’re awa.”
You seriously think that is a good piece? really? its a sad and rather biassed option piece full of some glaring omissions…
and I say that as someone who voted a resounded NO to independence in the ref. It really is a piece of utter shite… no where does it even start to acknowledge that the banks bailed out where ‘British’ in fact international no different from Bradford and Bingley or TSB… or that the as Scotland is in fact PART of the UK and was so in 2008 (when she claims teh bail outs happened) there where only 7 SNP MPs in the HoP…s o not quite sure how that can be accused of all sort of wanting to renege on ‘debts’ incurred… there are no 'debt’s - Scotland simply got its share of a bail out… people in England, Wales and Scotland have all suffered since then under austerity in equal measure…
See this is problem with internetwebshite - everyone with an opinion is suddenly able to publish opinion without any research, references or evidence and present it as some sort of authoritative position… you need to be careful what you read Pap… and take it for what it is… just one Unionists opinion based on fuck all evidence
er… what debts? the tax payer owns part of the banks, its all occlusion and semantics, depending on your perspective. Trying to justify that the idea of independence is wrong based on previous Governmental fuck ups? …From someone who advocated ‘independence’ from the EU to let us be shafted by Trumpcunt?.. sorry, but I suspect your opinion is as it is because you read and absorb too much shite opinion bollocks on the internet where everyone is suddenly a fucking expert…
They want independence so they can cede it to the EU.
Their worst acolytes seem to think everyone south of the border spends each day taking comfort from the “fact” we “rule” the Scots.
They say they’ve got no real power, but their kids aren’t 60K in debt each due to tuition fees. Our kids are. England is ending the lockdown. They’re not.
And yet, they blame Westminster for Scotland not locking down sooner, despite all that.
The Scots want better representation and a bit more respect, but the Nats are taking the piss. Is Scotland any more shat on than the NE or NW of England?
Especially as the latter do not have an organisation do not have an organisation like the Scottish Parliament to protect them.
Devolution should have been a great thing. All it has really been proven North of the border is that if you give the Nats democracy, and power over their own affairs, they’ll just seek independence so they can give it to someone wlse.
It’s just Anyone But England for the twattiest of the Nats.
Not quite sure where to start… maybe with the obvious as you are such a beacon of democracy…
There is a HUGE difference between wanting independence … and wanting membership of the EU… can you guess what it is yet?
Yes, its the democratic right to make that choice… something you are a big defender of… that is all the Scottish people want, the right to determine their own local future - even if you think their choices ‘Giving it away to EU’ is shit, it is irrelevant… You were happy for the Catalans to have their rights to independence whilst you could use it as a stick to beat the EU with, but any country that would seek to join the EU after independence is not given the same Pap blessing? And you call the Scots hypocrites?
You think there are not nasty cunts in all political parties, or amongst their supporters? You dont even have anything good to say about your party leadership, yet you expect 100% of ‘Nats’ to not have a thing against the English? - you make the same mistake many ‘English’ do when they think about Scottish attitudes towards the English… that its some sort of ‘hate’ … well you are wrong, sure there are a few, but then vitriol and ‘hate’ is reserved for Westminster, not the English.
But I guess as with you once meeting a couple of cunts from a private school who were arseholes, you have locked horns with a few 'Nat twitterfuckers (no surprise there) and tar the all with the same brush… and I thought socialists were meant to have the least prejudices ?
Like many Labour supporters, I suspect you cant forgive the SNP for taking a guaranteed 45 seats and making it almost impossible for Labour to ever get a decent majority again… so why are you not fucked off with the northerners for voting Tory? Because you like to suggest that the principles of democracy meant so much to them they were prepared to vote against their tradition? … Its seems in papworld, your right to democracy depends on your views on sovereignty??? you could not make it up
There’s no hypocrisy with the Catalonian situation. If memory serves, the Scots have had two chances to leave the United Kingdom in the past fifty years. The Catalonians got police batons when they tried and help from the EU in getting some of the leaders back on other charges.
I’m also not a Labour supporter. The party can fuck off as constituted, especially after the shenanigans over the past five years.
The referendum was supposed to be a once in a generation thing. The SNP are obsessed, with a good fraction of their members being thick as mince xenophobic cunts too myopic to see the idiocy of their own position.
As I keep saying, they’re Anyone But England as a political party.
The real shame of it is that they only see this way as the way to solve all their problems. That Anyone But England stance prevents them from seeing that the whole country needs political reform.
Their solution? Run away and join the EU as a tiny nation, instead of being an important part of the UK.
If you feel that way towards them… and if you suggest its SNP, then its a ‘majority’ (after all in UK PLC, a majority is measured in seats, not in popular vote… otherwise we would ahem to admit a majority voted for parties willing to review Brexit…but lets not go there), why the fuck are you so keen to keep them on a string, beholden to Westminster, why not let the xenophobic cunts fuck off and drown in the huge lake of EU piss?
Which is precisely the myopia I’m speaking about. You, like the SNP, think that the only way to address their issues is to leave, because the Westminster Parliament is there forever in that form, init.
The issue, really, is an imbalance between the very few rich regions of England and the rest of the UK. The SNP feel hard done by? They can make arrangements for their own citizens that cannot be made for English citizens.
The English have to take whatever the Westminster Parliament gives them. There is no filter of a devolved assembly protecting us south of the border, and yet, it’s the fucking barmy Nats that claim that they are most put upon by the Westminster Parliament.
This is not a criticism of all Scots, because I really like the Scots, it’s fucking sensible to have territorial integrity on an island and I don’t want them becoming Brussels bother boys on the British mainland, which is exactly what they’ll become should their more xenophobic elements have any sway.
Which is precisely the myopia I am speaking about, You like the other Brexiteers, think the only way to address the issues is to leave, because the EU is there forever in that form, init…
Or the myopia of the northern Labour voters?
By that reckoning 64% must be xenophobic bother boys in waiting…
Sorry, your argument falls apart because you simply pick and chose how you define and where you apply democratic principles to suit the situation… Would you be more supportive of the SNPs claims if their demonstrations had been ‘baton charged’ down by police reinforcements from south of the border? Does your democratic compass only point in the ‘right’ direction when their is violence?
It’s a completely different situation. The Scots can make their own law in a Parliament which is at variance from ours.
When the veto goes, that variance is out on EU directives forever, and cannot be changed by mandate of the public.
Furthermore, Scotland sends representatives to the Westminster Parliament too, having a democratic say in the direction of the country as a whole. Their votes mean just as much as anybody else’s.
New Labour fucked devolution up. It was an all or nothing deal, and to be fair to them, they did try offering devolved powers to the North East, a proposal rejected by voters in a referendum. If we had an English Parliament and a Westminster Parliament with a more limited scope, the West Lothian question would not exist.
Westminster was never going to diminish itself to that extent. They’d be left with running customs & excise, defence, trading standards and international negotiations.
And yet, that’s precisely what I think needs to happen to address this constitutional crisis. It’s not going away and the SNP will continue to exploit it until it does.
Another good piece by @Map-Of-Tasmania’s least favourite blogger.
There is nothing intrinsically wrong with devolution. There are various forms of it around the world, but devolution only works when the devolved parts accept that they are subordinate. The states in the US and the Länder in Germany do not think of themselves as countries or nations. They are not continually agitating to be independent and therefore they are not coming up with different policies for the sake of it and in order to justify their existence. It means that this system of Government works well. Devolution plus nationalism is explosive and unstable inherently. You have to take away the one or the other.
Devolution in Britain is lopsided. England has none while the SNP in particular continually uses the Scottish Parliament to assert its independence while relying on Treasury money to fund that independence. This has become incoherent.
