Labour party sounds even worse. A load of heavily pregnant bitches + men wearing hard hats. It’s a queer scene. Not for me,
Originally posted by @Jack-Schitt
Originally posted by pap
Despite the depressing history of media collusion, bought and paid for politicians, privatisation, deregulation and loss of public wealth we’ve all endured, something about his account, and indeed other world events, is that things can and do change.
From some of what I have seen from you over the years Pap, you have a pretty decent grasp of how this world works behind the scenes, and the social engineering project of control that is in place here. I’m sure you understand, that in order for the kind of sweeping changes necessary to make the state-machinery actually work for the good of the people – would require a “catalysing event” of some significant magnitude to accomplish. I’d be interested to hear, from where you see such a “spark” emerging?
Well, I’m a believer in the quote “Power must be taken, it is never given”, and I think that’s just as true in relatively stable democracies like ours.
Our system is essentially an elected dictatorship versus a mob. The vast majority of the time, the dictatorship gets its way. We debate the pros and cons of upcoming policy, and we’ll see the occasional Parliamentary revolt on proposals that are particularly odious. By and large though, a majority government will be able to push its agenda through.
There are times when the public just won’t accept a reform, the poll tax riots being the most recent example of that happening _and _changing the direction of a government. This crop of Conservatives are creating legislation that is at best, indifferent and at times, outright cruel.
They’ve previously gotten away with it because most of their attacks on the poor have successfully scapegoated the unemployed. Now that their policy guns are trained on the working poor, can’t imagine it’s going to be too long before we reach that point again. I know that they’ve got the media on their side, and that’s arguably postponed the general realisation amongst the public that they’re getting screwed.
Corbyn is already making a difference. Few of the other leadership candidates would be framing the arguments the way his team are now doing. For all the talk among Bitterites about not having a credible opposition, all other candidates would have been too scared, or too self-interested, to confront the Tory propaganda.
Will a spark happen? Don’t know, but for the first time in a long time, the conditions might be right for it to be sustained if and when it does.
1 Like
Yes Minister nailed it probably further back than the 80s too. I am another who has gradually become fed up with politics over the years. The disenchantment really kicked in when the three main parties seemed to morph into one another. At least Labour are trying to distance themselves from the other two now, well Corbyn is. I saw the words “career politician” mentioned earlier and am currently having first hand experience with one. For a year now I have been sitting on our Parish Council (real Vicar of Dibley stuff). We have a Tory coucillor on the Borough Council who is causing us major headaches. She is constantly trying to get is to toe her Party line despite the fact that we are not a politcial body and have been elected to deal with Parish issues. She does have a problem though. Her party want to build on much of the arable land in the area and the villagers are opposing heavy development. She is finding it difficult to support the villagers against the party which often leads to some interesting contradictions in meetings. One thing I have noticed is that the “green belt” seems to have been dumped in favour of “green corridors.” These seem to be strips of land that separtate the new developments that are springing up on what used to be “green belt” land.
Originally posted by KRG
Noam Chomsky:
The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum
Very true.
Originally posted by KRG
Oh and to the OP, yes. Yes it is.
Burn it down. Burn it all with fire.
The Targaryen is strong with this one. 
Good answer. 
Originally posted by @Burp
Hello.
My name is Inga.
Thank you for your insightful contribution Inga. I feel that my IQ has risen a few points having read your post.
It’s quality content such as this that keeps us coming back to this forum everyday.
Originally posted by @Fatso
is that last quote from “Roots”?
Not that I know of Fatso. I had to look up “Roots” to find out what you were refering to.
The wise man I spoke of, is a very old friend of mine. But I believe he was paraphrasing Joe Sobran. (Not 100% certain on that, just from memory).
Originally posted by @Bearsy
I’ve been a Conservative Bro for about 2 weeks, ever since krg noticed that my selfish disregard for the feelings of others is v.compatible with Tory Ideals. It’s going quite well so far.
Lol, classic. Very funny Bear.
Originally posted by Bearsy
Question tho, I hear a lot about the parties they hold, but where are they & how do you get invited? Do you have to take a present? Is there cake+balloons? Also, what is dress code? I know it’s a conservative party, but what does that mean? Smart shoes? Bow tie?
Mostly I believe they are held at a lovely little place called Bohemian Grove. To be invited, you have to be rich and powerful, and as for a present, I think you need to take along a young boy.
As far as dress code goes, I’m sure something out of the Eyes Wide Shut parties would go down a treat mate. 
I’ll get to page 3 shortly. Probably full of nuns.
Originally posted by pap
Well, I’m a believer in the quote “Power must be taken, it is never given”, and I think that’s just as true in relatively stable democracies like ours.
Are you speaking of the use of force if necessary, or taken purely by political means?
Originally posted by pap
Our system is essentially an elected dictatorship
Precisely.
Originally posted by pap
This crop of Conservatives are creating legislation that is at best, indifferent and at times, outright cruel.
They’ve previously gotten away with it because most of their attacks on the poor have successfully scapegoated the unemployed. Now that their policy guns are trained on the working poor, can’t imagine it’s going to be too long before we reach that point again.
You are a more optimistic man than I, Pap.
The society I see around me, is virtually comatose. Oblivious to any ‘bigger picture’ than what shite is on television tonight. The fact that something such as Celebrity Big Brother (add any other utterly banal celebrity trash-tv) even exists, let alone attracts such high viewing figures, is a statement in itself. 
Originally posted by pap
Corbyn is already making a difference. Few of the other leadership candidates would be framing the arguments the way his team are now doing. For all the talk among Bitterites about not having a credible opposition, all other candidates would have been too scared, or too self-interested, to confront the Tory propaganda.
You’re probably right on that front, although for me, progress that it may be in some form – still, it is just scratching the surface.
The way the media has gone into an utter frenzy over Corbyn from the very start; imagine what they’d be like if it was something seriously threatening to their powerbase!
Originally posted by pap
Will a spark happen? Don’t know, but for the first time in a long time, the conditions might be right for it to be sustained if and when it does.
Agree with you on that mate. 
If something happens, big enough to awake a slumbering Nation.
Originally posted by @Sadoldgit
I am another who has gradually become fed up with politics over the years. The disenchantment really kicked in when the three main parties seemed to morph into one another.
Indeed. And you can feel your options being increasingly constricted, into an ever narrowing band of choice.
Disenchantment was a great word selection. Captures the feeling well.
Originally posted by Sadoldgit
I saw the words “career politician” mentioned earlier and am currently having first hand experience with one. For a year now I have been sitting on our Parish Council (real Vicar of Dibley stuff). We have a Tory coucillor on the Borough Council who is causing us major headaches. She is constantly trying to get is to toe her Party line despite the fact that we are not a politcial body and have been elected to deal with Parish issues.
Sorry to hear of that Sadoldgit, sounds a shit situation to deal with.
Originally posted by Sadoldgit
She does have a problem though. Her party want to build on much of the arable land in the area and the villagers are opposing heavy development. She is finding it difficult to support the villagers against the party which often leads to some interesting contradictions in meetings. One thing I have noticed is that the “green belt” seems to have been dumped in favour of “green corridors.” These seem to be strips of land that separtate the new developments that are springing up on what used to be “green belt” land.
Probably just the start, unless you are successful in your plans mate. Green corridors will become green pathways, and then green borders. Welcome to the Concrete Realm of Dystopia.
1 Like
Originally posted by @Jack-Schitt
Are you speaking of the use of force if necessary, or taken purely by political means?
It’s probably worth distinguishing between “force” and “violence”. Non-violent protestors still constitute a force; the rabble of violent ones that get shown on the TV are used to delegitimise the underlying cause.
The point was that even when power appears to be given, it only ever happens because that is seen as the only way to quell public unrest, and even then, it ends up being manifested in a greatly weakened form.
Our democracy is a fantastic example. On paper, we’ve got universal suffrage and a voice in running our country. In practice, we’ve got a Parliament full of aspiring fuckos just waiting to be whipped, and a media that seems suspiciously in lockstep with government policy of the day.
The funny thing about your question is that if I’d have said “yep, Jack Schitt - violence is the way to resolve disputes”, I’d probably have caught considerable shit for it, and yet that is exactly what governments do 
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Thanks for your clarifications Pap.
Originally posted by pap
It’s probably worth distinguishing between “force” and “violence”. Non-violent protestors still constitute a force; the rabble of violent ones that get shown on the TV are used to delegitimise the underlying cause.
Exactly, the media will always play up the violent handful and turn what was a 95% peaceful, positive and constructive protest, into an extremist riot for the plasma screens. 
It’s one of the reasons I like an Anarcho in front of my Communism. Any change must arise organically from force of will, not guns and bombs. Going down the latter route makes us just like them.
Originally posted by @pap
The funny thing about your question is that if I’d have said “yep, Jack Schitt - violence is the way to resolve disputes”, I’d probably have caught considerable shit for it, and yet that is exactly what governments do
Lol, so true mate.
Anyway, like the average P*mpey season in League Two, interest in the topic seems to be fading fast after a lively start. So I’ll leave it there for now, unless others have anything further to add. Cheers very much for all your replies.