So what you are saying is both sides are a bad as one another?! Right, that’s this thread done. Move along everyone, nothing new to see here…
Interesting angle
So we have Poland close to tearing itself apart, and the EU threat to impose sanctions on them, and then the minor parties in Germany have finally found the weakness in Merkel that they needed to exploit to get a better deal.
Going to be an interesting few weeks. The ground is starting to shift under the feet of the mandarins in Brussels.
No doubt the lame ducks in London will give away everything at exactly the wrong time, something they’ve been rather good at in the past.
Interesting the throwaway comment that some German Industrialists are starting to lobby for better deal for UK, seems BMW have finally realised that nobheads may start driving Dodge Chargers or Ford Mustangs in UK soon, or God forbid, Cadillacs
Quite so.
They want us to pay £60Bn so that we can have a _€_90Bn trade deficit.
If we don’t achieve this wonderful status of a _€_90Bn trade deficit, we’re fucked. That is the Remain position 
No, I’m not saying that.
I’m saying things that are on record are far more concrete than things speculated.
It’s why bookies don’t let you put money on results that have already happened.
Why would anyone be upset? The EU will be as hard as they can be in the circumstances and we shouldn’t expect anything less. The fact that the Government has arsed about like pissheads on a stag night has only made the EU think they can get set their bar higher. That’s not to say that the UK’s job wasn’t very difficult to start with, but lack of planning and petty infighting at cabinet level (preventable) has made our position weaker.
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If you say so Darling! 
TBH the Brexit negotiations should have been handled “cross party” if that is even possible…
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I’m not quite sure what he’s banging on about. Something to do with Troika mandated technocrat governments, whatever that means.
But apparently it’s fact, whatever it is…
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I’m referring to democracy being suspended in Spain, Italy and Greece. You’re either ignorant of that fact or don’t care about it. Neither look goes with facetious.
Unlikely. Parliament is not overburdened with Pro Leave politicians, which is a problem in and of itself. With the likes of Chuka, Cleggy and Cable still screaming about the result, I don’t think that they’d help.
What is clear is that the state of Brexit is entirely a Conservative created problem, and the buck does not stop with Cameron. In calling Article 50 when she did, Theresa May won the applause of the Conservative Party Conference it was designed for, but utterly fucked our negotiating hand by setting the date in stone, a mistake she has repeated with her attempt to set the date in stone.
Something i believe everyone can agree on.
Not exactly looking out for the Country with that decision, was she.
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The sensible thing to have done is to prepare for all eventualities in advance. Two years to either come up with a deal or be ready for life without it.
Cameron never even bothered planning for it. He was of the opinion that his scare tactics, which let’s not forget, has perhaps mortally injured the reputations of institutions that are supposed to be impartial, would win the day. The Bank of England and the Treasury both came out batting for Remain.
May is a bin bag being thrown about on political winds she created herself. Far from being strong and stable, this weak leader turned fear of losing her own position into a trump card for our European opponents. They knew that May was only ever half-hearted. The election, which she counted on to strengthen her position, has mortally wounded her and the entire country in the process.
I’d have difficulty remembering a politician that so consistently achieved the opposite of what they desired, except we’ve had Blair, Brown, Clegg to gaze on these past few decades.
Stooping to thinly veiled insults now Pap?
So has the Eire PM banjoed the possibility of a deal or will the plucky DUP save the day for their Tory paymasters
Can’t see it myself…
FFS @pap
I was trying to create some common ground, but by the second paragraph you couldn’t help yourself. Stop with the constant “they said”.
The sensible thing to have done is to prepare for all eventualities in advance. Two years to either come up with a deal or be ready for life without it.
The sensible thing to do would’ve been to negotiate the exit before triggering article 50(not a problem, according to the man that wrote article 50).
Cameron never even bothered planning for it. He was of the opinion that his scare tactics, which let’s not forget, has perhaps mortally injured the reputations of institutions that are supposed to be impartial, would win the day. The Bank of England and the Treasury both came out batting for Remain.
You believe that. Really?
May is a bin bag being thrown about on political winds she created herself. Far from being strong and stable, this weak leader turned fear of losing her own position into a trump card for our European opponents. They knew that May was only ever half-hearted. The election, which she counted on to strengthen her position, has mortally wounded her and the entire country in the process.
I like thinking of May like that. Your first and last sentences are spot on, but it’s the rabid “bonfire of regulations” lot in her own party that have got their wish, not the EU.
I’d have difficulty remembering a politician that so consistently achieved the opposite of what they desired, except we’ve had Blair, Brown, Clegg to gaze on these past few decades.
Oh good, common ground again
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On the most pressing issue raised by your post, yeah, we know so.
The Treasury told us we’d face an immediate recession in the event of a Leave vote, as businesses slung their hooks to more attractive destinations. That it was false is only part of the issue. It was the forecasts as article of faith that did the damage, along with the perceived partisan route it took. Same thing with the supposedly independent BoE.
I think Britons have a right to expect that their independent institutions serve the country as a whole, not blowing on the dice as chancers Cameron and Osborne made their last political gamble.
Oh, I genuinely didn’t know that democratic government had been suspended in those countries. Does that mean they’re now dictatorships? You’d think there’s be some discussion in the news about it.
EDIT: Just checked
Greece had their last general election in 2015 and have a democratically elected Government
Italy had their last elections in 2013 and are due to have their next elections in 2018.
Spain had their last elections in 2016
I guess there’s facts and then there’s fact, eh pal?
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Yes it’s the Fail, but midway through they do actually pick up on the fact that the Eastern EU states are having issues.
Obviously I know about Poland and they really are getting close to the start of open protests against the Right Wing Government, but interesting that Hungary and possibly the Czech Republic are turning that way as well.
Bit of a fiddling while Rome burns at the moment. All the idiots in Brussels actually needed to do was give callmedave a few soundbites about reform. But oh no…
Sod Brexit, will there be a Europe to come back to next year
hey everyone its me. I happen to have a few minutes before I leave for a short vacation (holiday) and I thought I would pop on to ask a Breixit question (naturally). Is the consensus that the Russians interferred with the Brexit vote and, if so, is there any support for undoing or redoing the vote.
Given what we know about Russian actions in the American election it seems inconceivable to me that they didn’t interfer in Brexit.
I have not research this issue on British news sites and I certainly haven’t gone back and read this thread.
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If they did, it made no difference. We were too busy believing what the bus said.
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