Originally posted by @BTripz
Originally posted by @pap
Not playing in the Euros is probably the most telling bit of circumstantial evidence. Whether agreement or someone having a sulk, I expect that means he’s not cup tied.
Was he ever named in the Europa squad?
I think also the lack of signing a new contract is a big marker!!
I understand a new contract was never offered.
Can not see him going in January if it is not in the clubs interest.He is after all under contract and the club can say no as they did with Mane and Wanyama.
Originally posted by @Smuggins
Originally posted by @BTripz
Originally posted by @pap
Not playing in the Euros is probably the most telling bit of circumstantial evidence. Whether agreement or someone having a sulk, I expect that means he’s not cup tied.
Was he ever named in the Europa squad?
I think also the lack of signing a new contract is a big marker!!
I understand a new contract was never offered.
We offered a new contact in the summer and he is signed up until the end of the 2017/18 season, so not that bad really.
Couple of questions here, Bazza. First, and easiest, when did West Brom last qualify for a European competition? Second, what would you have us do? You complain that we play a second-string team for the Europa League. I don’t agree that this is the case, though we’ve clearly rotated the squad and it is fair to say that the Premier League is our top priority. Would you rather we played a second-string team in the Premier League? Had we done so against Liverpool two weeks ago, for example, we’d more than likely have lost the game - would you have been happy, or even OK, with that?
Should we concentrate our efforts on the Europa League and the domestic cup competitions, even if doing so would suck us into a relegation fight? As far as I can see, we’re trying to balance the demands of a number of different competitions, and as things stand we’re doing that pretty well.
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- I can’t speak for Bazza and 2) I can’t know for certain how welcome my contribution to this will be
, but; from what I can see, deep down, most fans are accepting of the fact that there’s really very little else we at Saints can do, but being football fans, they obviously always want to see their team do better.
, but; from what I can see, deep down, most fans are accepting of the fact that there’s really very little else we at Saints can do, but being football fans, they obviously always want to see their team do better.At the micro level, its easy for this desire to have an outlet. Case in point; its completely reasonable (in a vacuum) to want/demand/expect Saints to do a little bit better than losing 3-0 to Palace. In the grand scheme of things however, it becomes much tougher to justify - and this is where clubs attract charges of arrogance and ‘ideas above their station’.
For example, having shipped 3 goals in the last 15 minutes to lose to Bournemouth, Liverpool fans would be seen as having every ‘right’ to say that their defence could/should be improved or have played better on Sunday. However, those same fans saying “our defence should improve as we need a better defence to win the title”, would draw accusations of arrogance and delusion (despite the latter demand-for-improvement being necessarily comprised of lots and lots of smaller, demands-for-improvement such as the first).
To put it another way; suppose you or I as a Saints fan told a supporter of another club that last season, we should have got at least a draw against Bournemouth, Norwich, West Ham and Palace away, and certainly should have beaten that awful Villa side, held on when 2-0 up against Leicester, and avoided defeat to Stoke at home. All sounds reasonable doesn’t it?
However, if you added on the 9 points you’re demanding there, the extent of your demands would be that Saints ought to have finished 2nd in the league! And if you said that was your expectation straight-up, you’d of course be laughed at.
So there’s a kind of dissonance there - the expectation that we do a little bit better than losing 3-0 to Palace is reasonable, but the expectation that over the course of the season, results like losing 3-0 to Palace won’t ever happen is not.
Long story short, the verdict of “Saints have achieved the absolute pinnacle of what a club of our size can and will ever achieve and there is absolutely nothing we can do about our inability to top a 6th-placed finish in the Premier League, other than try and perhaps win a cup with a lucky run and a fair wind” is such a dispiriting outlook that even if all the evidence points in that direction, most fans, being the hopeful bunch that they are, naturally want to believe something different!
And hey? Who can’t sympathise with that? Its simply very disempowering to think that whatever the best efforts of our club might be, even when its clearly well-run, the steps backward are inevitable and totally beyond our control. It flies in the face of everything it is to be a football fan.
But, sadly, with the hierarchical stratification of the Premier League and of European football in general, that is probably how things are - and I do have to hold my hand up and admit that sometimes I feel (having had a season ticket for the past 8 years and calling time on it this season) that I’ve more-or-less seen all there is to see.
Enjoy football. Enjoy supporting your local team. Cheer and hope they do better on the day but every now and then, to avoid infuriating frustration, just take stock and have a think about what you’re actually asking for.
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Originally posted by @MrTrampoline
- I can’t speak for Bazza and 2) I can’t know for certain how welcome my contribution to this will be
I’d say it’s welcome here but I dare you to post such reason on SWF. There’s probably a meltdown thread of some description that needs this posting.
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Fuck it…I’m an Ostrich.
I’ll believe we can do anything at least once in my lifetime…win another cup, win the Premier League, win a European contest…keep some of our best players for more than 3 seasons.
Don’t come back at me with reasoned argument to tell me it’s not possible…I don’t want to hear it. It’s this that’s kept me supporting all my life and as a season ticket holder for more years than I can remember and for as long as I can drag myself up the steps at St Marys.
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99 times out of 100 clubs like us do not win major trophies. But Leicester have shown that is possible. If something can possibly happen then it probably will at some point. That is what keeps hope alive. We have a better chance of winning a cup of course, but everything is relative. As for the “should haves” - that is what makes sport interesting. It is the fact that, on the day, anything can happen. We could play Palace again tomorrow and beat them 3-0 and their supporters would be saying they should have beat us having just beat us 3-0. I am at the point in my life now where I hope for the best but fear the worst. What will be will be. We will win a cup or we wont. We will keep Virgil for another season or we wont. I try not to let these things upset my life and just hope we will do better next time. When you see the way some of the posters carry on over on TSW you do worry about their blood pressure and how little must be going on in their lives when you see they way they react to a lost football match. A little perspective is all it needs. I dont like losing either, but at the end of the day, it is only a football match.
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West Brom haven’t for years but what is your point, if we’re not going to play our 1st team then was is it?
Do we want to be there or not?
On that note we had all season to strengthen and playing Martina is seems to me to be a reflection of attitude towards the Cup, the Liverpool game we were very very fortunate to get away with, if we get out the group stage of competition (we should due to resources and money) do we continue to “rotate”?
Had all season to strengthen outside the transfer window? I wonder if Martina has played games because Soares has been injured.
I’ve said for years this is as good as it gets as we don’t have the intent nor money to go further hence that’s why we sell, why the fuck the board won’t admit that is beyond me.
Back to the Palace game, its not the defeat its the manner of the defeat, our football this year has been slow, turgid boring and lacking passion hence the reason I am not convinced in the slightest about Puel.
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Sideways passing
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Doesn’t appear to know his first XI
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No plan B
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Far too predictable and slow in build up
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Team selections and rotation needs explanation
Possibly but I don’t believe so I think he is part of the plan.
Originally posted by @Barry-Sanchez
I’ve said for years this is as good as it gets as we don’t have the intent nor money to go further hence that’s why we sell, why the fuck the board won’t admit that is beyond me.
Haven’t we improved every year?
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I still think Puel will win me A Cup and he will be My Hero, and it will be our Best Ever season since I have been follow Saints.
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Has any manager of ours had a plan B?
Poch didnt have one
Koeman certainly didn’t
Now Puel
You would have thought that that would be one of the first questions in the interview process - “Please describe your plan B”
Originally posted by @pap
Originally posted by @Barry-Sanchez
I’ve said for years this is as good as it gets as we don’t have the intent nor money to go further hence that’s why we sell, why the fuck the board won’t admit that is beyond me.
Haven’t we improved every year?
We’ve plateaued and this with the current board and investment as good as it gets, why would we sell our players? We’d pay them more and keep them otherwise.
I seem to remember we bought that Pied chap as a right back and then he got fucked, hence Martina still playing. Try again Barry! Unless, of course, you think we should sign a new player each time someone gets injured.
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Sorry Barry, I’d like to take you seriously on this matter, but as you said yourself, you’ve been wrong for years.
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Pap don’t be flippant do you think we can improve? Have we improved on performances from last year from team signings, team strength, play, entertainment etc etc Unless of course you’re suggesting we are going to do a Leicester, are you suggesting that?
So, despite year on year improvements for the last 5 years, despite still being in 3 (incl. FA Cup) competitions one of which is European and the other we’re in a semi final (3rd time in 30 years) - you’re prepared to state that by early December we’ve plateaued and this is as good as it gets.
You’re gonna be unbearable when it really goes tits up.
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