Originally posted by @Ohio-Saint
Originally posted by @CB-Saint
Not really, Ohio. Dads just live in fear of their daughter meeting someone just like they were when they were younger.
Plus they don’t want to face up to the fact that their little girl will be playing hide the sausage in the not too distant future.
Isn’t that what I just said?
Yep, I don’t think we are that complex, just stupid 
Oh dear Lou, why are you getting so tetchy? It was a reasonable question. There is a reasonable debate to be had about how much cleavage you can show with it becoming a boobage festival and whether that is appropriate to wear when going out with your Dad. Elsewhere there was a lengthy discussion about how this must be difficult for Jose with a load of testosterone fuelled footballers looking at his daughters boobs. I made no judgement of her and my only comment was that I doubt if any of my daughters would want to dress like that when going out with me.
I also love the comment about she only grew them a few years back. Sounds like she strapped a grow bag to her chest! 
Seriously though, one minute you seem to want to be one of the lads and the next you get all protective over your sex. One of the things about being one of the lads is that we know exactly what our shortcomings are and are quite happy to send ourselves up. Lighten up and stop trying to see a negative in anything I say when it comes to the gender differences.
Picking up on this point - I know someone whose very attractive daughter has grown up around the pro football scene. Because she has seen what these lads were like when they were nippers and the kind of young men that they have grown into - she would not go near a footballer with a big shitty stick.
I suspect this the same with Jose’s daughter and I suspect Jose knows this and is a little more relaxed about it.
Anyway, what pro footballer in their right mind is going to bone the Gaffer’s daughter? they would be training with the under 8s for the rest of their contract.
Thanks for the lecture, SOG
Only trouble is, I’m not in the slightest bit tetchy. And I don’t need to lighten up. I’m actually quite amused by all the complexities and contradictions that are inherent in this debates of the sexes. In fact, I’m so amused, I’ve not even annoyed at some bloke I’ve never met, telling me to lighten up!
Also, I don’t want to be one of the lads. I’m just a bit of a tomboy, and veer towards interests that boys also like. I don’t believe there’s any contradiction in any of my behaviour or my view points.
You make so many assumptions.
I get involved in these debates because I hope I have something to offer based on personal experience that comes at it from a different perspective. You may not agree with me, and I don’t need you to agree with me, but I hope it adds to the discussion. I’m usually pretty patient and pretty polite with my views.
And, when you’re 18, amongst all the body insecurities, there is a bit of pride in the body you’ve just grown. Yet society tells girls they need to hide it away, strap it up, feel embarrassed about it etc. I get why fathers feel protective, but what I’m saying here is think about it from a bigger perspective, and think about the long term effect that might have on your daughters and the relationship they have with their bodies.
Boys fancy girls, that’s natural. That doesn’t mean they shouldn’t behave respectfully.
Ok, no problem. And I agree that men/boys should behave respectfully to woman/girls. And vice versa.
They dont have to worry about the Gaffer’s daughter at Chelsea, they have the physio…opps.
Originally posted by @Sadoldgit
What sort of comparable revealing outfit would teenage boys be likely to wear? Tight shorts and a jacket without a shirt underneath? As a male there isnt much you can reveal, or partially reveal, without getting arrested.
I’ve walked around with my norks out and not got nicked. However, male nipples are not as rude as female nipples for some reason I have never fathomed.
I watch the Inbetweeners and wince. Not just at them, but also at me at that age. I’m sure that’s not uncommon.
Originally posted by @pap
male nipples are not as rude as female nipples for some reason I have never fathomed.
Not entirely true. Lady nipples belonging to third world women in National Geographic are somehow perfectly respectable, relevant to their culture, and apparently totally safe regarding giving a boner to any adolescent that flicks through that publication.
We weave an intricate and particularly sticky web for ourselves, and we will never escape it by applying logic.
I have some experience in dealing with poor body image Lou. My youngest daughter is a recovering anorexic. Her mother, my first wife, was convinced that she was flat chested (she wasnt and never had any problems in attracting men) . She felt that somehow she was less of a woman (despite having 4 children) and in the end I gave in and paid for her to have a breast augmentation. Sadly it didnt make her a better human being but at least she then felt better about her image! It isnt just women who have issues about the way they look. I used to get uncomplimentary comments about the way I look and grew up with a complex. I was glad to be a teenager in the 70s because long hair was the fashion and I could hide behind it. At the point that I could afford it, 27, I had a nose job. My wife had the same problem when she was younger and also had a nose job a few years before we met. She still talks about how bad she felt before the operation. I have seen pictures of her then and she was as lovely then as she is now, but clearly she didnt see it that way. So perhaps now you see where I am coming from on the other thread? Paying a compliment is really not the worst thing you can do to somebody.
Originally posted by @Sadoldgit
I have some experience in dealing with poor body image Lou. My youngest daughter is a recovering anorexic. Her mother, my first wife, was convinced that she was flat chested (she wasnt and never had any problems in attracting men) . She felt that somehow she was less of a woman (despite having 4 children) and in the end I gave in and paid for her to have a breast augmentation. Sadly it didnt make her a better human being but at least she then felt better about her image! It isnt just women who have issues about the way they look. I used to get uncomplimentary comments about the way I look and grew up with a complex. I was glad to be a teenager in the 70s because long hair was the fashion and I could hide behind it. At the point that I could afford it, 27, I had a nose job. My wife had the same problem when she was younger and also had a nose job a few years before we met. She still talks about how bad she felt before the operation. I have seen pictures of her then and she was as lovely then as she is now, but clearly she didnt see it that way. So perhaps now you see where I am coming from on the other thread? Paying a compliment is really not the worst thing you can do to somebody.
SOG, I’ve read your story about your daughter before and feel I learn lots about the condition through what you write, every time you do so. Thank you for sharing that. I think body image is a whole other complex topic and I don’t for a minute feel knowledgable enough to start a discussion on it. What I was touching on above was more around female sexuality than the broader topic of body image.
On the LinkedIn topic, all I can give you is my personal take on it based on my experience - and I definitely don’t speak for all women on this, although there are plenty who would agree with me. When you’ve spent considerable time, effort, thought, energy, determination etc etc, to build you career, often coming up against all sorts of subtle or not so subtle sexism along the way, and a bloke in a relatively high powered position in your industry, send you a random message on LinkedIn, calling you a stunner, it doesn’t (no matter what his intentions were) feel like a compliment. Particularly when it’s not the first time it’s happened. Context is everything in situations like this.
I would tell you about some of my personal experiences, and a few days I go I wrote a message describing some of them. But I deleted it, because frankly it leaves me feeling a bit exposed to misinterpretation. So instead, you’ll either have to trust me, or dismiss me as a reactionist - your call.
We went out for a meal yesterday to celebrate my middle daughter’s 18th birthday. The choice was Japanese and I am pleased to say that they all tucked into the food and my youngest is looking much better now. You never really know what is going on and I try not to put too much pressure on her but she seems happier in herself and to be dealing with life much better for now. We are lucky and I feel blessed because I know that many people suffer with this dreadful disease much more than we have.
I dont really want to delve into the other stuff again and have left that thread as I could see that it was not going well. We both come at this from different angles and although I know you think I am stubborn I do understand your point of view. I read a piece in The Guardian the other day by Barbara Allen and although I didnt agree with it in this particular incident, I did understand her viewpoint. If you havent read it she basically said that he is a sexist chancer.
I have a number of good friends who are female and at times they share some horrific stories with me. One told me how, at a time when she was in hospital being treated for breast cancer, he partner left her for her best friend, only to rteurn when she was better (why she took him back I shall never know). I have heard stories about bullying and name calling in the playground (from both boys and girls) that have left some feeling suicidal. I dont doubt that you have had some deeply unpleasant experiences too. Sometimes life sucks. My view though is that people are awful to other people and although there is often a gender element to it, also often there isnt. Men can also suffer at the hands of women. My wife put me through so much I ended up having what used to be called a nervous breakdown and ended up being treated in The Priory. The Priory treat certain mental health issues and one of those is eating disorders so I got to know several people who were going through some awful stuff related to self image (I guess that helped me deal in some part with my daughters condition). I know that some people are tough and can take it, some can take it for a while then it gets to them, and some have little resistance and crumble early on. My Mum told me later in life that she used to suffer with bulimia when younger. She also used to tell me about a teacher who told her once that the brains in the family stopped at her older brother David (she was one of 11). This stayed with her all her life to the extent that it is one of the last things she talked about before she passed away. So sad. She was such a lovely lady with the kindest soul who wouldnt hurt a fly. She clearly struggled in her youth.
I am sorry if I have come across as insensitive. I can see my stance on the other matter has caused you some anguish and that wasnt my intention. It is easy to get stuck into a debate on the internet and not realise when you are going too far. KLG pointed out that was what I was doing on the other thread so I have tried to reign it in a bit. Anyway, the sun is shining (well it is in deepest Kent) and we are going to turn over the Mancs tomorrow, so things arent that bad right now! x
Originally posted by @Sadoldgit
I am sorry if I have come across as insensitive. I can see my stance on the other matter has caused you some anguish and that wasnt my intention. It is easy to get stuck into a debate on the internet and not realise when you are going too far. KLG pointed out that was what I was doing on the other thread so I have tried to reign it in a bit. Anyway, the sun is shining (well it is in deepest Kent) and we are going to turn over the Mancs tomorrow, so things arent that bad right now! x
Not at all, SOG, no anguish - you are nice man and I can see that. If I were at all upset by the debate, I would just back out of it. You can assume if I’m responding, I’m not annoyed. It’s when I go silent that you have to worry
The sun is shining, I’ve just had an hilarious FaceTime ‘conversation’ with my 8 month nephew, life is good…but unfortunately I now need to go into the office 
Bring on tomorrow (2pm, yeah Pap?)
Enjoy your drinks tomorrow and have one for me! I hope you see a good game. I shall be watching it on SKY with a plastic Manc but he is a decent guy so should be ok!