Those pesky Europeans, staying over there, feeding their kids.
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We need a complete overhaul of our voting in system, from there change and concession will happen.
I understand why a tory would vote tory, I really do, but the poor and ower classes do so, why? Snobbiness I can only imagine, I do laugh when I have better wines whilst spouting how I hate the tory cunts.
Sorry @areloa-grandee - the presence of a comprehensive state school system pretty much makes a private education a luxury item by definition.
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Perhaps they can only vote in policies like this if they all agree to come to the sotonians farmhouse party and buy Pap a drink?
Sorry but it’s school boy socialism. Independent (it’s not private by the way) education is better in most cases simply because it is properly funded. It is NOT the fault of independent schools that successive Governments of all types have continuously underfunded state education. Education is NOT a luxury. Independent education is BETTER because of this funding, than most comprehensive schools and until comprhensive schools meet those same levels, those that can afford it will always look to use it- that is not the definition of luxury.
Sure, its a choice many dont have, but that does not make it a luxury… you just want ‘rich’ folk to pay twice … Corbyn is sadly a 19th century socialist that will never get any power as a result of not seeing that the world has moved on and that social justice will not be through such headline statements, but through more creative and modern thinking - unfortunately for him, the post Brexit lurch to the Right and the rise of Scottish nationalism has doomed the old left to a bit part in the modern politic. Get used to it… you have doomed yourself
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After going all Turing I sort of agree…
I don’t think independent schools are better. Sure, most of the top jobs go to a few people from certain schools, but that’s got more to do with the old boy network than providing a better grounding for life. Most of the not-loaded people that I know that send their kids to private schools have got a proper inferiority complex, either about themselves or their kids. Some attribute their own failures on not going to a private school, imagining the whole affair to be some sort of Matrix like insta-brilliance that would have been theirs if only papa had not had such a lowly station in life.
If the net result, as @cb-saint suggests, is that a few more parents pull their kids out of private schools and send them to state schools, all the better, imo. If people want to carry on paying, that’s their choice, but they can pay the luxury tax.
Personally, I think kids are better off going to state school, and that it’s fine to tax parents that think state school isn’t good enough for their offspring.
I think I get where you’re coming from @areloa-grandee and I really do …
but…your comment that " independent education is BETTER than most comprehensive schools…" exposes the lie of the independent sector. They play on the fears of parents and offers a false promise of a leg up in life and people understandably buy into it, and why wouldn’t you.
If the Govt properly funded and staffed state schools with excellent educators there would be no need for the independent sector.
I’ve put both my kids through the state sector at an admittedly average school. #1 got straight A* and #2 is in line for same this summer… We’ve encouraged them to succeed and that may have been the difference but I’ve saved £3 grand a term on each of them. Not to put you or anyone else down in wanting the best for their kids but the independent sector is a symptom of the way education is provide in the UK and how independent is perceived as better…rightly or wrongly.
I’ll shut up now.
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Yep. And while they don’t properly fund it overworked, undervalued educators like myself (currently an excellent one based on any metric you fancy - Ofsted outstanding, value added for my students/ALPS data) will be leaving* the state sector for the independent in droves. Something needs to drastically change irrespective of flavour of government.
*don’t judge me - if you walked into work tomorrow and were offered more money, 6 weeks more holiday and half the workload somewhere else - you’d jump too.
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With respect, I think this issue of ‘playing on the fears’ is a falsehood. When I talk about ‘better’ its not because i think it will mean a ‘leg up’ or give a ‘better chance’ - yes that may be the case with a few select public schools, but the vast majority of independent schools, most whose names you will never have heard of focus on the kids NOW and not on trying to breed little tory leaders of the future.
The advantages of the school my daughter attends are very practical - simply facilties and focus. The facilties for learning, focus on IB, sport, music etc are just so much better. As are inclusive after school clubs… They focus on helping the kids gain confidence at an early age, but also to be compassionate and appreciative of the world around them. Most of the kids there are actually the kids of academics from the local university, international and would not qualify as ‘rich’ by most folks definitions, but neither on the breadline.
Pap, your comments are pretty immature and insulting and pretty typical of those that turn folks away from the patronising victorian socialist ideology, that you and Corbyn seem very fond of, forgetting that money and choice of schools has little to do with social conscience…
Its not about how many A stars or which university, its about letting kids experience as much as possible as they go through school from range of subjects, sports and arts. All kids should have that as a right NOT as a luxury and its only the unwillingness of our governments to tax ALL at a rate that is fair to ensure such opportunity for all that means its limited to those who can afford it or make huge sacrafices to do so.
There are many folks who happily spend £1000 a year on Sky TV, £4-5k a year car + £2-3k a year on holidays - you have the cost of a years non-boarding fees - that is the choice for many… still not a bad problem to have as say what to put on th table, but we do not live in a communist utopia, where allis shared equally, but we try to contibute socially by paying tax… that is teh system we have… given that there is no tax break for not using the state system and a higher rate already paid in, your position that this ‘luxury’ should warrant additional tax is as riddiculous as it is unjust - except to a few who seem to be stuck in 1875…
I wont judge you, I cant… but as a Teacher, I would expect you to want to be able to have the best facilities and environment to allow you to focus on what you are trained to do… not deal with all the shit that comes with a lack of resources… I would love NOT to have to pay out that cash - plenty of other nice things to spend it on, but the local comps have 30+ in a class, and struggle with resources and simply cant offer the breadth - that is not the fault of those schools or the teachers, but quite simply the governments policy on funding education and whilst they remain so under resourced, then sending children to schools that are not stretch is NOT a luxury…
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Yep - I am genuinely excited (which is an absolute fucking shame and not something I ever imagined I would say when I first got into teaching). After 10 years of working stupid hours while being under resourced by successive governments the idea that I might be able to do my job properly and spend time with my own kids at weekends seems fucking amazing.
Why aren’t we all getting angry and challenging our governments to spend the money on the things we want our taxes spent on instead of being taxed and then paying extra on education or private health care because we think the stuff we already pay for isn’t up to scratch. I know total utopia stuff. I am sure this is pushed by league tables.
the-best-state-schools-have-pulled-ahead-of-private-schools-why-is-that-so-hard-to-accept/
Sure there is an article to disprove this.
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We’re stuck with this government. there’s no opposition. So, Grammar Schools incoming. May is on record as making it her thing.
Despite being the resident conservative I really have no issue with this policy. It seems intuitively fair to me - if you’re minted enough to send your kids private the least you can do is chip in a few quid so that the kids who are state-educated can at the very least afford to have a half-decent bite to eat.
If you can save £10-20k p/y after taxes and all the combined essential expenses required for a family, you’re pretty darn well-off by most any metric. My parents couldn’t have afforded to send me to private school but I’d consider myself firmly middle-class and very fortunate.
This entire paragraph follows precisely the same logic that one would be using if they were to say that 1st class air travel isn’t a luxury, because economy class isn’t “properly funded” - as the phrase “properly funded” is totally subjective. You’re essentially saying that you simply have to go private because state education is below what you see as a certain minimum standard.
Anyway.
I have to say; I’m not a socialist, but I do find it a little mysterious as to why arguments for things like high inheritance taxes, land nationalisation or in this case, the abolition of private education are seen as beyond-the-pale crazy *other than* not being vote-winners in elections.
I mean, all of them are exactly the sort of policies I’d expect to hear from a socialist - they’re high/low on the equality/freedom tradeoff, and make no apologies for having a strong state implementing equality where equality doesn’t naturally form.
A socialist sees more unfairness and injustice in the huge disparties in the sheer luck of where we’re born and into what social class than he does in restricting the choice of the privilieged in order to balance things up - so why is it somehow oh-so-crazy to object to private schools? Or even just ask them to chip in a few bob more?
I mean sure, I can understand why people would disagree, but the idea that its a super-duper-hyper-ultra-madting left wing position to take does seem quite strange to me.
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The classic ‘silver spoon’ - wondered how long it would be before that would appear… . A rather naive and ignorant view and shows you know very little of the main demographic, but you do have form for jumping to conclusions about people you know nothing about.
You flippantly add it’s easy for all to ‘chuck in a few bob more’ Conveniently ignoring the two main points; that fees for many are already at the max that can be afforded and 2) that there is already a double tax in that respect through income tax and supporting a system that is not used…
The best state schools are indeed excellent, and if you are lucky enough to live in their catchment area (which come with house price premiums as a result) great, I would be the first to send my kids there… nut most don’t as as with all schools state and independent there is a huge variation in quality and consistency in the standards
A rather false assumption is that parents just decide independent because we can afford it… for most that is total bollocks because only stupid people want to pay twice for something… most will quite rightly check out all the state schools in the area before considering the huge expense of independent schools… its not the FIRST choice, but made when you realise that the resources and what is in offer locally is simply not what you would expect.
As always there are several separate debates intertwined into one - which is common amongst old school socialistas because it helps distract the argument from the real reason they object which is just the principle of independent schools in general…
These separate questions are:
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Do you believe in the principle of private or independent education or should the Government dictate to parents what is allowed?
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Why do parents chose to spend £1000s on independent schools when league tables show the best state schools are fantastic?
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is it fair and just to tax people a second time for another contribution to the state system they do. It use when they are already paying in more?
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What standard of education is a right and what is a Luxury?
This last is the crux because something can only be classed as a luxury if you believe the quality of ALL state education is at a level you think is acceptable and fit for purpose. In many many schools due to funding policy it is not. The level of resources and education at the best is, but based on your opinion, should not those who are lucky enough to afford a more expensive house in a best school catchment pay more tax too? Same logic - or at least as same as the ridiculous 1st class flight analogy…
… ultimately, parents should not need to justify their choices. Sadly we are doomed to years and years of right wing Government so those ridiculous notions from Corbin that show just how out of touch he really is will never be really tested by the electorate - his initial principled stance has like most politicians descended into one headline grabbing farce after another - attempts at populism through idiocy…