“Yo! Spudders here, homie”
immediately recognisable as a black man (although I’m not black or spudders).
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Originally posted by @Coxford_lou
Whereas with cunt - it’s used on men and women, and women are supposed to not like it for its crudeness, therefore as a woman, that makes it more fun to use!
My mate’s girlfriend claims to have never used the word. That, I could believe. The follow-up claim, that she would never use it, was contested.
“That’s bollocks”, I said. “You’re just saving it for a special occasion.”
Confession secured there and then. She’s coming to Glastonbury with us next year, and I will get her to say it, even if it’s because I’ve set her tent on fire*,
*I’ll ensure that she’s not in it first, like. I’m not that much of a cunt.
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Don’t axe dumbass questions bredren.
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That place really is a steaming cesspit.
“I don’t see homophobia, therefore it doesn’t exist. Likewise racism & sexism.”
I cannot physically facepalm hard enough without caving in my own skull.
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As with most TSW threads it started off reasonably then went downhill rapidly. I guess it is the same with all football forums. You have a bunch of (mainly) blokes who have a common interest but even though they (mostly) havent met the other people they decide they dont like many of them and take every opportunity to belittle each other and score points off them. I cant think of one “debate” there that hasnt desended into a pathetic handbag swinging exercise. Still, at least I have learned something. Apparently many gay people move to Soho or Brighton because they feel “more comfortable” with their own kind! Oh and also apparently it isnt stereotypical to expect male cabin crew to be gay even though nearly half of them are straight! Every day is a schoolday.
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Seems like we just have to figure out which Premier League footballers have also worked as cabin crew 
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Or hairdressers that drove an MR5!! 
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Perhaps I have missed something but I find many of the comments on that thread to be utterly bizare. Surely if gay people say that they are still have problems with discrimation against them then it is an issue? Just because some posters dont hear it or see it they seem to think it doesnt happen and isnt a problem. Also it seems that gay people cant wait to pack their bags and head off to the gay hot spots of Brighton and Soho at the weekends to get their gay fix! There are several gay people in our village. They dont see themselves as “different” and go to the local pubs and restuarants with us “normal” people. One in particular hates the “gay scene” as he finds it way over the top. I also know straight people who get involved in the “gay scene” just because it is over the top.
Now that Fry has got involved in the debate I was going to bail out but found myself getting pulled back in today because a couple of the usual suspects continue to talk about gay people as if they are from another planet. Gay people like going to the gay scene, who knew, was one classic. If I was gay, and the guy who started the thread with the best intentions is, I would be feeling incredibly patronised by that thread. In fact the poor guy has been pretty much ignored on his own thread by people too busy telling us that gays have nothing to worry about and are perfectly happy in their own little enclaves.
I dont know this as a certainty, but football seems to be the one sport where being gay is still an issue. I say that because even macho rugby has gay players that have come out. Gay footballers still have an issue with being open about who they are. yes it is their business and no one elses, but in this day and age, why is it still a problem to admit in public who you are?
I’m disappointed that gay posters on Saintsweb feel comfortable to “come out”, but ours are still lurking in the shadows. That does not reflect well on us! We need to be more gay friendly IMO.
The other concern is that if there are any new gay posters looking for a forum to post on, they will prob gravitate to Saintsweb rather than here, because they’ve already got one, and as we know all gays like to hang out together in one place.
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You almost have to admire how far they miss the point by.
I, as a straight white man, see no affects of homophobia, racism or sexism. Therefore it does not exist, and everyone should stop talking about it for attention.
Also, dafuq is their obsession with “attention”? Everyone is doing everything for attention. It’s impossible for anyone to speak about an issue they face, without these fuckwits claiming it’s just for attention. What does that even mean? What do people think they are hoping to gain out of this attention?
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SOG, I’m not sure anyone has actually said that?
I think there is an issue here. We have a number of posters who say that they see it a lot in day to day life, and a number who say they don’t see it at all (but don’t deny that it does still happen).
The truth: Somewhere in the middle I would guess.
We’ve got zero gay creds. All our liberal grandstanding amounted to nothing in the end.
You’d at least think the penis heads would have been enough! But no. 
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Reading through the thread Cherts, it really does read as that. Especially given the context of these posters history.
Look, you started this thread showing some pretty abhorrent stuff, there was the other thread recently with the Violinist documenting the shit she gets.
We spoke about that incident with my girlfriend on Twitter, which was far from an isolated incident for her or other ladies I know.
This shit is so insanely common it’s untrue, but people just don’t want to admit to it. Usually, because as straight white guys it doesn’t affect us, and dealing with it also means facing up to the fact that we are usually the ones doing this shit. It’s uncomfortable, but it is true.
Just a few examples:
Here (To be honest, just look at anything to do with the person involved. Notorious shitbag, working for the most pathetic rag going)
The BBC programmes about racism recently showed how people can be singled out for their skin colour/religion. The reaction to people wearing headscarves is pretty obvious, again exemplified here.
Heck, my flatmate at University (Leeds, so a moderately big reasonably metropolitan City with a pretty vibrant gay scene) received abuse on a daily basis. Not even just from locals, fellow students too.
It’s not just about the physical abuse people receive, the violent attacks that cause hospitilisation, rape or other such things. It’s the tiny, microagressions thrown around daily. It’s the sorts of things that may not register to most, sly comments, making a big deal out of moving out of someones way, moving away from people in busy places. Things that go unreported, things that people who don’t experience a constant stream of this shite that grinds you the fuck down.
The examples I posted took a couple of minutes to find, and even these are extreme cases. Think about all the shit that gets no attention, all day everyday tiny, little things happen. Which, for someone like me that doesn’t encounter this stuff at all, is easy to dismiss as nothing. When that is your reality, fuck it must be depressing.
So no, I am not remotely convinced that this shit doesn’t happen. Or that it is me looking for anything. Denying the prevelance of is simply burying your head in the sand.
**Edit: I know the examples given are mostly related to sexism, but they are just ones I’ve seen recently. I can’t imagine it would take much to find examples of similar racist or homophobic crap.
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But who says it doesn’t happen? No-one has said that.
I think the problem is how we define a lot. As I say, considering I work for a company where over 50% of the head office men are gay (in a head office of around 5000 people), and spend much of my life with these people, including going out after work to various parts of London, I don’t think I have personally seen anything for 6 or more years (I have not encountered homophobic abuse since living in London). However, as I (and others) said on that thread, that’s not to say it doesn’t happen, I just don’t think it’s as prevalent as some make out.
What we’re trying to quantify is how big an issue it is, and why it would be an issue coming out at football In these times. Considering it is a long time since I have heard any homophobic abuse at football, or any in general, I can’t see it would be a big thing, not like in the 90’s or before.
From a sexism point of view, there are many examples of this, which has only increased since the advent of social media where people can air some pretty abhorrent views without fear of reprisal.
I was paraphrasing but some of them did give me the impression that because they didnt have a problem with it there wasnt much of a problem to worry about. View From The Top today said “If anyone genuinely thinks the UK has an issue with homophobia they really need to give their heads a wobble.” This guy is a teacher apparently. Dear old Hypo got his under garments in a twist over the definition of a “hate crime” and wasnt going to concern himself about the approx 6000 hate crimes recorded last year against gay people until he got a satisfactory response. There was also a view that why should someone be given lots of credit for coming out and getting 15 minutes of fame for it. Frankly I would give any footballer coming out a medal! Perhaps I was reading too much into it but I was getting a vibe, mainly from Hypo, that gay people were “different.” Apparently they feel safer in numbers and that is why they swarm to Brighton and Soho (I am not sure but I suspect that many gay people stay in the areas where they grew up or work and carry on their lives just as non gay people do). I am no expert on gay people by any means but from my experience they see themselves as no different from anyone else but just happen to fancy people of the same sex. I know two male members of cabin crew with BA, both straight. My ex boss in the CPS is a lesbian and was a Senior Crown Prosecutor. her partner was a high ranking member of the police. Two gay guys live down the road (I dont live in Brighton or Soho but a small village on the edge of Romney Marsh) one is an osteopath and the other works in the processed food business. Two more gay guys have just moved in ,ocally and both work locally in everyday jobs. The people we bought our cottage from bought the house from two gay guys who both worked in banking. All of these people drink in the local pubs and eat in the local restaurants. A couple of them like to party but most live quite lives. They are open about their sexuality in the sense that they dont make a big deal about being gay, but they dont flaunt it either. They are just people. They dont expect any special treatment and they would be horrified to read some of the stuff on that thread about how they are supposed to be different and many of them feel more comfortable with their own kind. My osteopath hates the gay schene because for him it is way too camp. I suspect that some people do move to certain areas because they want more of the gay scene, but as much as Brighton has a gay scene, it is still has a very high “straight” population. You would say that Maidstone was the gay capital of the world but I know of at least one “gay” pub there and suspect that every large town or city has places where more gay people are drawn to - I am sure they dont all decamp to Brighton and Soho (the two places that Hypo has selected as where gay people feel more comfortable because they are amongst their own kind. I am still trying to work out what that means because the gay people I know seem to be very comfortable living amongst all of us terrible heteros.
Can you really not see how a statement such as the following could be perceived as denying the existence or prevalence of such problems?
If anyone genuinely thinks the UK has an issue with homophobia they really need to give their head a wobble.
The point is, it is an almost unquantifiable problem. As I was trying to explain above, so many of these things happen, daily, and are not reported or just outright dismissed. As is happening on that thread, and happens on any thread over there on anything that relates to things that don’t really affect straight white guys. It’s a lack of empathy, and not being able to listen to the realities of others.
Who are the others that you don’t believe Cherts? Women? Muslims? LGBT folk? Why is it you think these issues are exaggerated? For what reason?
In relation to football, if you (a straight guy, like myself) can’t understand why it would be an issue for a gay footballer to come out. Maybe ask yourself why? Like, seriously. If everything was so hunky dory, why would no footballer feel as though they could come out? From a purely statistical viewpoint, you would imagine that there has probably been at least 1 gay footballer to have graced the Premier League, right? In reality, probably a fair few. So then, why, exactly would none of them feel able to publically express that fact? But you, as a straight man don’t think there is an issue. Surely, you can see the issue with that?
KRG, I would prefer it if you didn’t put words into my mouth, where have I said I don’t ‘believe’ people or that their experiences are ‘exaggerated’? I have asked myself why, and I think it’s due to an unfair representation of football fans and their tolerances. I don’t want to speak on your behalf, but I assume you believe that if one did come out we would hear gay chants, match in, match out. I don’t, and that’s the difference.
Before you can really understand what someone esle goes through you need to have some experience. We can all have an element of empathy for people who have been exposed to sexism, racism, homophobia etc, but to be those people on the end of the actions is something else and we need to listen to them. I have been on the end of some unpleasant bulling, nothing too extreme but not pleasant. I have had complete stangers make comments about the way I look in pubs. Deeply unpleasant and if I was a violent type I could have found myself in a few punch ups. Fortunately I just walked away from it. These incidents have been few and far between thankfully, I cant imagine how people deal with this stuff on a regular basis. Germaine Jenas was talking about how some players will use what I guess we can call “sledging” to try and put you off you game. He used an example like I slept with your missus last night so you can imagine what fun some of these idiots will have with gay footballers. It even happen to me once playing park football! The bloke marking me said that “I shagged your bird last night” and followed it up with a few more colourful phrases. Fortunely we stuffed them and I scored a hattrick so that shut him up but it was all I could do to stop myself kicking him up in the air evertime he got the ball and I cant say that it didnt needle me. Can you imagine getting stick from the terraces with thousands of people having a pop? It will take some very brave and thick skinned individuals to come out, take the crap and forge a way ahead for all of the other gay footballers to come out.
But the main point here is that no matter how horrible it is being abused for the way someone looks, or some other attributes (and I used to get abuse for being overweight), getting abused for it is not illegal. Being abused because you’re gay, or black, is, hence why when it does happen (Suarez, Terry etc) it is a massive issue. If someone is racist in a football crowd, they get chucked out. Same for homophobia, hence why I don’t believe it will happen.
Hadn’t read VFTT’s quote before now so cant comment on what he meant, but yes, I disagree with what he says there.
To be honest I don’t think that footballers aren’t coming out because they’re worried about the crowds reaction, I think they’re more worried about being accepted by the their teammates!
I mean if a bloke is gay and you’re another bloke the gay guy is instantly going to fancy you isn’t he!!
This is Gareth Thomas’ thoughts on it
Thomas was most afraid that his team-mates would not accept him as a gay man, but their response was nothing but warm and supportive when he told them.
Why, then, is it still such a taboo for sportsmen to come out? He, cricketer Steven Davies and swimmer Ian Thorpe seem to be the most recent and heroic exceptions in a world still full of secrecy. Thomas begs to differ: “When I came out I hoped it would empower others — and it has. The media focus on professional athletes, but they are a tiny proportion [of those playing sport]. I’ve had [gay] people sending me letters, stopping me on the street: people who aren’t professional, but are taking the courage to play for their Sunday league football team, join their rugby club or cricket team.
“[Professionals] may have problems because they don’t have a good support network, because of the religion they are part of or the country they are in: it’s still illegal in 77 countries I think. But the world is bigger than the bubble of professional sport. The fact that people are coming out, slowly but surely, at the top, is helping people in a huge way come out in their masses.”
After Thomas came out he felt a bit only-gay-in-the-village in Bridgend, so moved to London “to have a better life, meet more people, but after a while I realised the thing I had run away from was the thing I missed most, the people who made me feel secure.”