I step to NO ONE Bearsy. You wanna hang with me, you got my number.
It’s scrawled on the wall of every night-club toilet .
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you talkin bout yer spunk every time you misfire?
Originally posted by @Coxford_lou
Well, I’m the biggest advocate for niceness. I hate upsetting people. But I thought the response to Furball pushing really hard on popular perceptions here of the Labour Party and Corbyn, was just a bit weak to be honest. I didn’t think he said anything without a context or justification, or that wasn’t just a consequence of frustration in the heat of the debate.
I see things differently. The debate was riddled with one-liners, which are by definition, almost without justification, and of course, very easy to dismantle. Furbs got himself into a mess by posting the unqualified statement about nationalisation not solving the problems of foreign governments trousering money from our utility companies, then ran all over the place afterward trying to narrow the argument down to something that’d post-date his very open statement.
Same thing with all the proposals that have been turned into walking talking strawmen, the wide-ranging slurs on Corbyn supporters, or the endless repetition of an already defeated point, like the untested nature of Corbyn. You’ve hit upon one feeling spot on. It is bloody frustrating to have to deal with, largely because I know I’m dealing with a very intelligent man and I’m getting tactics that could justifiably be described as “verbose Turkish”.
And normally this kind of thing would have no consequence, if one person is upset with another - that’s just how it goes, I’m not fussed. But because you kind of pitched it as a ‘this isn’t what this forum is about’ then that’s where I have an issue. There’s a difference between a forum where members don’t and aren’t encouraged to treat each other with respect, and good old meaty ding dong where members push the limits, get annoyed with each other, push each other’s buttons. If we’re going to become so nicey nicey where that can’t happen, then (much as I love the clever humour of many of our posters) it’s just a bit dull.
I agree with that. and for the most part, I think the site strikes a nice balance. The decision to simmer the Labour thread down was actually taken collectively. Posters were remarking that the one v one had perhaps gone too far, and bletch PM’ed me to remind me of our site’s virtues.
So yeah, play, tease, and have fun. But that thread was getting way beyond that, into the realm of personal insult, and it’s not really something I want to entertain. As this exchange should prove, people are capable of discussing difficult subjects frankly with respect.
The Leadership debate should be considered a damn good effort, particularly from Pap and Furball. Even if as individuals you come out of it feeling a bit bruised. More of the same please.
I’m very pleased with the Labour Leadership Race thread. The site should be proud, but the nastier parts of the exchange you liked so much were the worst parts of it.
The reason I preferred to say this face to face was because its easier to say strong things without causing offence when it’s in person (and I’m never one to hide behind a keyboard). Plus you always risk writing something that could be misinterpreted.
But that goes against site transparency, and I’ve never really liked the practice in the office either. You’re too decent a writer to be misinterpreted anyway.
She’s a woman pap. We can only misinterpret her 
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Button pushing is actually quite hard if the other person knows what you’re up to.
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Originally posted by @JBoy
Button pushing is actually quite hard if the other person knows what you’re up to.
I dunno, mate. I think it depends on which ones you push.
I’ve met your missus and she seems lovely. But I bet, if so inclined, you could wind her the fuck up in less than 60 seconds. I could do the same with mine; I am just not inclined to.
Got loads of sympathy for the idea that it’s only ever ourselves that are capable of winding ourselves up, tho.
I can do 20 seconds no bother mush 
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Well Pap, the tricky thing is I’m discussing this with the Papsweb site owner and also the person in the middle of the debate. I’d say your description of events has a lot of bias and uses some pretty loaded terms as if they are fact. I’m not going to rehash the debate here (and my view on it would have equal bias given I agreed wih the points Furball was making), but I am stating my viewpoint on it in terms of the wider forum direction - for you to consider, agree with, disagree with, whatever you choose. Sounds like I’m the minority, and its the majority that stands on this site. My view is I don’t think this site shouldn’t shy away from meaty debates, and any debate around politics is always going to get a bit heated. I think Bletch was wrong (sorry Bletch!) Up to you.
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Originally posted by @Goatboy
She’s a woman pap. We can only misinterpret her
I will get you for that, Goatboy… one day!
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All I can ask is which bits did you disagree with?
I honestly try to call things as I see them. We’re a small site, looking to grow, and it’s going to be very difficult to convince people to get into the water if they look at a general interest thread like the Labour leadership contest and get the impression of Amity Island on a bad day.
Oh, we can trade blows. We’re fucking brilliant at it, but to what end? I love the fact that Furball decided to join up, but I’m always going to have difficulty when things turn the wrong kind of personal, and I realise I need to qualify that, because no-one wants to post on a site where they cannot respond to nonsense in kind, and we’re all about the context.
Example of where I (and lots of other people) thought personal abuse was fine was Fatso’s recent plea for Barry to “get a grip, you big bell-end”. No permanent bell-end status was implied. It was a comment borne of the times, and a plea for Barry to moderate his behaviour. Upvote central, even though I know Fatso gives not a fuck about these things.
A couple of the posts on the Labour thread were just attacks on permanent credibility, and as a long-term Internet user, I’ve done the same thing. I’m not judging. I’m a big boy, and have dealt with and dealt out far worse in my keyboard warrior career. But this entire style of debate is inconsistent with what I want this site to be, something you very much inspired, which is to have an inclusive site where intelligent people talk to each other with respect.
When you’ve got intelligent people ripping the fucking shit out of each other on a site that is supposed to trade on respect, subsisted by an undercurrent of niceness, we look like people not really meeting our brief. I have been chasing some potential joiners and/or lurkers I know that have posting potential this week. I’ve had feedback that the tone of those exchanges has deterred them. They either don’t want to step into the firing line or are afraid they will be unconstrained in what they say when stepping into the debate.
If those exchanges are getting to the point where they’re dominating the debate, drowning out the context and deterring people from participating (or even joining), and not really going anywhere except more personal, they’re probably worth bringing to a close so someone else can chip in.
Originally posted by @pap
All I can ask is which bits did you disagree with?
In your summary above? “Furball got himself into a mess” (you both did) “Verbose Turkish” (c’mon Pap, pot, kettle. You’re pretty verbose yourself! And the Turkish comparison is very loaded) and “some of the nastier bits of the exchange you liked so much” (I’ve never said I like anything nasty, and calling it nasty is your interpretation)
have been chasing some potential joiners and/or lurkers I know that have posting potential this week. I’ve had feedback that the tone of those exchanges has deterred them. They either don’t want to step into the firing line or are afraid they will be unconstrained in what they say when stepping into the debate.
Really? One thread amongst hundreds, one heated debate about politics. Blimey.
My last message was giving you an out to just ignore me, Pap… Otherwise this debate will also never end… 
My final sentence on this is, I’m petitioning for the old Pap to come back.
Politics. Pah.
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Originally posted by @Coxford_lou
In your summary above? “Furball got himself into a mess” (you both did) “Verbose Turkish” (c’mon Pap, pot, kettle. You’re pretty verbose yourself! And the Turkish comparison is very loaded) and “some of the nastier bits of the exchange you liked so much” (I’ve never said I like anything nasty, and calling it nasty is your interpretation)
That’s worth clarifying. I merely meant that some of those posts followed the Turkish patterns of ignoring previous input and repeating the same question.
Really? One thread amongst hundreds, one heated debate about politics. Blimey.
The answer to your question is “no, I’m not fibbing”. 
Yes, it genuinely came up.
My last message was giving you an out to just ignore me, Pap… Otherwise this debate will also never end…
Product of that environment, sadly. I’m not sure that replicating it here is either possible or desirable. Understand that while I could cope with being on the receiving end of that, it wasn’t nice. Some people just won’t bother afterward. That is what I’m looking to avoid, and if I’m spending my time destroying people, I can hardly ask people to stop doing the same.
Bollocks to what others think Lou, you go your own way and stand your corner, between the lines I would say there are some right little tories on here hidden behind toal banter and rehashed buddy jokes from the 90’s.
Always have an agenda and don’t hide it, to me that’s about right, others of course have an agenda but they are either too reserved or too sly to show it. Cyndi Lauper and all that.
Barry, for the avoidance of any doubt, could sir clarify as to whether you think this sort of thing happens Time After Time, or Lou’s input is simply a consequence of the well known fact that Girls Just Wanna Have Fun?
I drove all night for the truth to come out and sure enough Lou’s true colours shone through.
What’s all this about anyway? Has frbl been ban or something?
No-one’s been banned, dude. Lou voiced a concern about Furball not attracting the same respect on stuff despite strident views and things. I’ve tried to answer it the best I can. Not sure I did brilliantly; there are _new _laser sights on the side of the house tonight. Very fetching they are too
Banning should be only for racist, homophobic or something deemed wholly inappropriate,mock shock indignation (pc wankdom) is an illness of modern life.